DADT

Okie Boarder · Ladies Man Joined: 03 Mar 2008 Posts: 10056 City: Edmond

They ran a news story out here about DADT. They are going to reinstitute it here for the state National Guard. It has gotten some folks pretty riled up. To me it is something that doesn't seem like a real big deal either way. How do most of you feel about DADT? If you don't like it, what is it that you don't like about it?

Chad H · Posted: Jan 11, 2012 5:04 pm Post subject:

All about getting an argument started lately aren't ya Okie Boarder? Neutral

finkle · Wakeboarder.com Freak Joined: 22 Sep 2003 Posts: 4067

I'll bite, I'm bored.

I consider myself a fiscal conservative but a social democrat. Thus, I think don't ask don't tell probably worked, but gay people are born gay so why should we deny them the same rights as someone who was born straight?

Lop · Posted: Jan 11, 2012 5:27 pm Post subject:

Chad H, He said don't tell

Okie Boarder · Ladies Man Joined: 03 Mar 2008 Posts: 10056 City: Edmond

Chad H, discussion...not necessarily an argument. I'm not actively trying to start anything, just throwing things out there as I see them.

finkle, my question with it is why does there need to ability to pronounce sexuality by renouncing DADT? Do you enter a room and announce to everyone what your sexuality is?

That's the part of it I don't understand, which is why I'm asking the question.

DRAGON88 · Posted: Jan 11, 2012 7:11 pm Post subject:

Okie Boarder · Ladies Man Joined: 03 Mar 2008 Posts: 10056 City: Edmond

How would a person know you're heterosexual without you telling them? If a policy was in place to not talk about sexuality how would there be any discrimination allowed?

DRAGON88 · Posted: Jan 11, 2012 7:32 pm Post subject:

No gay person has ever been "outed" by a peer, right?

Okie Boarder · Ladies Man Joined: 03 Mar 2008 Posts: 10056 City: Edmond

But wouldn't that peer get reprimanded with DADT for even suggesting a particular sexuality of another?

ontrider · Ladies Man Joined: 30 Jul 2003 Posts: 16491 City: Russia

Okie's like my own personal Canadian Livel ink to Fox News!!!! Laughing

Okie Boarder · Ladies Man Joined: 03 Mar 2008 Posts: 10056 City: Edmond

ontrider, LOL! I'd bet it's pretty close...me being conservative minded and all.

Neognosis · Ladies Man Joined: 13 Jan 2003 Posts: 17617 City: Webster

chavez · RIP MHL 04/25/1958 - 01/11/2006

Okie Boarder, if they do that, f*ck Oklahomophobia.

Seriously, f*ck your state. May the legislators who vote for it and the gov who signs it die slowly in a fiery crash.

Bigoted mf's.

Okie Boarder · Ladies Man Joined: 03 Mar 2008 Posts: 10056 City: Edmond

The thing I'm trying to understand here is what is the difference in policy between DADT and not having it in place?

CB, you might have nailed it there for me with what you are saying.

Is there protection against discrimination and "attacks" of someone over their sexuality in the military with DADT and without it?

Do people get reprimanded for outing themselves or others under DADT?

Okie Boarder · Ladies Man Joined: 03 Mar 2008 Posts: 10056 City: Edmond

chavez, such tolerance from you...I'm almost overwhelmed.

Neognosis · Ladies Man Joined: 13 Jan 2003 Posts: 17617 City: Webster

jason_ssr · Posted: Jan 12, 2012 8:48 am Post subject:

IMO, this is old people making rules for the young about things old people care about that the young do not. Gay is everywhere and nobody cares. Just like earings, long hair, tatoos, etc. These things were taboo for my parents generation that our generation does not see as a sign of negativity. When the boomers die off, this will not be an issue.

finkle · Wakeboarder.com Freak Joined: 22 Sep 2003 Posts: 4067

jason_ssr, exactly. That's how it is for almost all issues though.

Neognosis · Ladies Man Joined: 13 Jan 2003 Posts: 17617 City: Webster

I think it will be same way with smoking the pots when the old people die off.

and this is also why harley davidson introduced the dark custom line of bikes.

GnarShredd · Posted: Jan 12, 2012 11:08 am Post subject:

jason_ssr, I'm always impressed with your ability to take my thoughts, remove the frustrations I have with an issue, and make them in to something coherent.

My feeling is that by drawing any type of line with something like DADT, you're perpetuating bigotry and a divide between mankind. To me, a rule like that is basically saying "You're not equal".

From the little I know about being in the military (I haven't been, but have had a couple friends who are), a lot of those people don't give a **** about this kind of thing. Once you've spent time training and on duty together, to them you're a brother no matter what.

I'd be interested in what the actual members of the military have to say instead of some political blowhards deciding that what they think is right is the way everyone should think.

DRAGON88 · Posted: Jan 12, 2012 12:11 pm Post subject:

Okie Boarder · Ladies Man Joined: 03 Mar 2008 Posts: 10056 City: Edmond

DRAGON88 · Posted: Jan 12, 2012 1:23 pm Post subject:

Okie Boarder · Ladies Man Joined: 03 Mar 2008 Posts: 10056 City: Edmond

Correct. It wasn't really on my radar as something I keyed in on. If I happened to catch a story about it on the local news, that's about all I ever heard.

I've understood it as something that was put into place so there wasn't an emphasis on sexuality. Whatever your sexuality is didn't matter and it created an order to not talk about it.

DRAGON88 · Posted: Jan 12, 2012 11:28 pm Post subject:

And yet... There are no repercussions from a heterosexual male "coming out" as a straight person.

If the goal were to keep service members from openly discussing sexual preference, wouldn't the policy discharge straight people as well?

Okie Boarder · Ladies Man Joined: 03 Mar 2008 Posts: 10056 City: Edmond

I would think it should.

GnarShredd · Posted: Jan 13, 2012 6:28 am Post subject:

jason_ssr · Posted: Jan 13, 2012 10:17 am Post subject:

DADT was a reasonable solution based on the understanding they had at the time. Militaries going back hundreds of years have documented the effects of sexual frustration in single sex environments, and how it effects a soldier\platoon, etc. You guys dont remember all the saltpeter urban legends and such? They thought homosexuality was an environmental condition (as seen in prisons and other single gender environments) and dealing with it often divided a force otherwise trying to work together. you can imagine what a military leader trying to keep his men alive in unspeakable conditions was up against. Soldiers had a firm grasp of how the intense environment changed ones mental makeup and didnt want to be "afflicted" this way.

In the modern military it is A.) not a single sex invironment, and B.) now knows homosexuality is not some mental affliction everyone in a stressed environment is susseptable to. The soldiers are no longer paranoid about it nor are they in these tight single gender stressed environments for several years at a time. The modern soldier is not concerned with the gender or preference of the soldier next to him. He is only concerned about their ability to do their job.

Like I said, once the old guard holding on to these beliefs is gone, it will be a non-issue. My children will never know a time where long hair meant you were a stoner, an earing in a particular ear meant you were gay, and a tatoo meant youve been in prison. The symbols and labels that meant things to my folks and have little meaning to me, will be completely foreign to them, much like the idea of the "colored" water fountain is foreign to most of us. Just like sexism died when depression era leaders retired, racism and SP bias will die when the boomers are out of power. All those ideas are foreign to the up and coming generations.

Neognosis · Ladies Man Joined: 13 Jan 2003 Posts: 17617 City: Webster

Militaries going back THOUSANDS of years have tolerated homosexuality, some even admiring it though.

And what you claim was "documented" is really just a reflection on the society. But I think you tried to say that anyhow...