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Composite Sandwich Wakesurf build - 2010 :)
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Soul Rider
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Joined: 21 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Mar 07, 2010 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Mark! Good to see you on WB.com and thanks.
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Soul Rider
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PostPosted: Mar 07, 2010 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Again...flip and repeat.
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lakewakes
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PostPosted: Mar 07, 2010 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i see you have green grass already , and will this build be in with the garage sale of boards Mr. Green
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Soul Rider
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PostPosted: Mar 07, 2010 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah - sheesh, mowing time again! Smile Depends how it rides, Mark, if it doesn't net me anything good...then yep, in to that pile it goes! Smile
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Soul Rider
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PostPosted: Mar 07, 2010 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The joys of epoxy. Most room temperature cure (RTC) epoxies require a post cure. The RTC requires a post cure so that the epoxy develops it's full properties.

The post cure process is simply heating the board/epoxy up to a temperature below the heat deflection temperature (HDT) of the epoxy for several hours and then letting it cool. One issue with epoxy is that it can get soft under later use at any temperature above the temperature it was originally cured at. You can imagine how easy that would be in July out in the boat! Smile

The only thing that is problemetic for me here is that the 1# EPS melts at a lower temperature than the HDT of my chosen epoxy.

I use a hot box that has 4 100 watt light bulbs connected to a Johnson control. I set the Johnson control to 110 and bake the board. Smile

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flixmaster
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PostPosted: Mar 07, 2010 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So impressed with this thread. Very cool to see the progress from materials to a board.
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Soul Rider
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PostPosted: Mar 09, 2010 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Ed, it's great fun to engineer and then build a board like this.

Now on to installing the fin boxes. Earlier I described placing the high density foam for the fin boxes and now I will sink those boxes into that high density foam.

Just a quick visual of where the boxes will end up.

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Soul Rider
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PostPosted: Mar 09, 2010 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I start by marking the location of the boxes. I measure the placement up from the tail and then, find center and measure the trailing edge of the boxes out from the centerline. I repeat that process for the leading edge of the boxes and draw the toe-in which becomes the centerline of the boxes.
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Soul Rider
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PostPosted: Mar 09, 2010 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The tool of choice for this - the Futures installation jig. The router and collar, alignment tool and the base that the collar rides in.
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Soul Rider
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PostPosted: Mar 09, 2010 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You use the clear alignment tool to line the plate on to the marks and then run the router all around Smile
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Soul Rider
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PostPosted: Mar 09, 2010 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oops wrong picture. Smile
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Soul Rider
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PostPosted: Mar 09, 2010 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the picture above you can see the "fuzz" from the Zylon. It's exceptionally hard to rout through the two layers. Fiberglass cut's cleaning and doesn't have this issue. I run the router around several times and it finally trims the Zylon pretty close, the last little bit I burn off with a lighter Smile

Lastly, I mix up some epoxy and pour it into the holes, and set the boxes in place. The use of the fins allows me to check the toe and cant as the epoxy cures.

I'm going to paint the exterior, so the boxes will wind up being painted too.

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Soul Rider
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PostPosted: Mar 11, 2010 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The rest of the build is basically body work. Smile

One hit on the deck with primer.

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lakewakes
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PostPosted: Mar 12, 2010 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SD,

So how come you still install boxes after the build, instead like i do under the glass.
And have you tried the probox fin stuff, they have cool fins and install is the same way as you do yours.
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Soul Rider
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PostPosted: Mar 12, 2010 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Mark - Zylon doesn't sand, under the zylon and it would just be a fuzzy mess if I tried to grind the slot open. Smile Zylon is an amazing material, but it's a major PITA to work with - doesn't sand, hard to cut and takes tons of pressure to consolidate smoothly. Behind the boat we don't really need the glass over the box, so I don't bother. Probox is a nice box, but I have no Probox or FCS fins, and I have a TON of Futures. Smile

Second coat of primer on the deck and first on the bottom, both still a tad wet. Smile The last picture, shows a layer of bondo that I use to create a "smoothie" around the fins., this is before any sanding. I'll paint over the boxes so that you can't tell they are there. Smile

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Soul Rider
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PostPosted: Mar 13, 2010 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've scuffed the bottom in preparation for the color. I use a 3M sanding pad, 320 grit. I still have to hit a few more areas before applying the color.
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Soul Rider
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PostPosted: Mar 13, 2010 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I HATE the boring graphics on most of the boards out there. I grew up in the age of old school paint - lace panels, metal flake pin lines, etc. My plan is to lay down some red for pin lines, then silver metal flake for more pin lines, a white panel in the middle and then blue panels with some "fish scales" and panels with horizontal fade bars. Smile

Ketone is where I buy my paints. They offer enamel and urethane paints directly from car manufacturers in rattle cans. The urethane paint is toxic as hell, but super rugged.

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Soul Rider
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PostPosted: Mar 14, 2010 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I roughed out a design on scratch paper and then transfer that onto a full sheet of butcher paper - freehand. My design will have 5 panels, one at the nose and two on each side. In between each panel, I want a red pinline. I cut the panels out of my full size rough out and then trace around those on the board, lightly, with pencil.
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Soul Rider
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PostPosted: Mar 14, 2010 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This gives a rough idea of the layout of the various panels.
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PostPosted: Mar 14, 2010 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Next I shoot the red where I'll place the pinline. It's a little wide so that when I layout the 1/16" tape I can adjust the shape and get a nice symmetrical shape. The panels will follow the outline of the red pinlines. When I lay the pinline tape over the red, that color will stay as I apply the other colors.
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Soul Rider
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PostPosted: Mar 15, 2010 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use 3M 218 tape for the pinlines. There are some other tapes, but I like this one best.
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Soul Rider
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PostPosted: Mar 15, 2010 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use my sketch to lay out the pin lines around the panels.
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PostPosted: Mar 15, 2010 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is a CLEAR example of why I don't do this for a living Smile My bifocals make it REALLY hard to get it lined up, but...it'll do. In this picture, you can see how the tape will cover up the red and when I peel that off later, the red will show up.
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Soul Rider
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PostPosted: Mar 15, 2010 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I intend to tape up some wider pinlines around the outside of the panels. I don't have much width control with the rattle can, so I lay down the silver metal flake as a base coat. After this dries tomorrow, I'll tape the panel outlines.
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Soul Rider
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PostPosted: Mar 16, 2010 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The panels will have a a thicker (1/4") silver border around them, so I lay that out with 218 in a 1/4" width. This gives a visual of where the panels will be. Each panel will have a separate effect. The middle oval will be painted white, the various panels will be a pale blue with dark blue effects.
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Soul Rider
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PostPosted: Mar 16, 2010 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The dark blue effects on the nose will be taped over, so I lay down a coat of dark blue, after taping off the rails and across the panel pinline at the bottom. The middle oval is white, so I lay down the white to cover that. On the rest of the panels I want a bright and light blue and so I paint the inside of the panels white which will give me a lighter shade of blue for the inside of the panels and it brightens up the blue, also.

Tomorrow I'll tape over the center oval and apply the tape in the front panel then it will be ready for a coat of blue metalflake.

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PostPosted: Mar 17, 2010 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I taped off the center section that I want to keep white, then I place a bunch of pinline tape in the nose panel for my effect. A single razor comes in handy for cutting the tape over the pinlines.
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Soul Rider
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PostPosted: Mar 17, 2010 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I shot light metallic blue over the panels.
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PostPosted: Mar 17, 2010 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the proper light, you can see the effect in the nose. I'll apply the panel effects tomorrow after this coat sets up a little.
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Nooga678
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PostPosted: Mar 18, 2010 3:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can't wait to see the finished paint job. Do you put any final clear coat over the paint?

Also, what is the benefit for the side bite fins and how do you set them up? From the pictures it looks like you did the main two fins as a traditional twin set up with some toe in. Will those also have some can't? Then it looks like the side bites are toe'd in even more or is that just an illusion in the picture?
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PostPosted: Mar 18, 2010 4:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Nooga, thanks for following along. Yes, after I finish both sides, I'll hit it with a few layers of a catalyzed clear coat, which is super durable and is the same stuff used in the clear coat on cars.

You have a great eye! Those small boxes are C5's from Futures. Many moons ago Rusty P of Rusty's surfboards designed those and there are small fins that go along with it and he call the fin pod design a C5. In Rusty's design they used a traditional thruster design and then added those small canards to the front. There is another fin pod design called a twinzer which is a four fin, like I plan,. but the canards are placed further ahead of the fin than the C5 arrangement.

The rail fins have the standard cant from Futures, which is set at 6 degrees - we use the 3/2/1 Vector's as the rail fins. The smaller C5's have a cant of 9 degrees. I also add about an extra 1/8" of toe.

The theory behind the design as created by Rusty is that the canards promote attachment on the larger rail fins. They enter the water ahead of the rail fins and break up the "tension" so that as the water flows back to the rail fins, there is less drag and that stream of water attaches more easily to the main fins.

If not done right, those canards just add DRAG, but with the proper placement, you can feel the increase in the board's "squirt" - the acceleration is more rapid than the twin fins alone, but it doesn't create that harsh locked in feel of a true quad.

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PostPosted: Mar 18, 2010 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've taped up the areas I don't want paint on, and then laid out horizontal pieces of tape that I will use as a guide for my effect.
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PostPosted: Mar 18, 2010 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Starting from the back and working towards the nose, I peel up a layer of the tape and then lay down a fade of white, the base of the fade is "fuller" and has a clean cut off.

Mid application.

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PostPosted: Mar 18, 2010 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use a squeegee as a backer to prevent overspary and to concentrate the paint at the base.
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PostPosted: Mar 18, 2010 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Again, you can see why I don't do this for a living Smile My panels aren't matched, but I'm ok with it. Smile The outline of the panels is silver, but is under the tape right now. This gives you a slight visual of what it will look like when done.
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