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DD auto ballast woes

 
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Wakeboarder3780
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PostPosted: May 25, 2009 6:21 pm    Post subject: DD auto ballast woes Reply with quote

I'm about to install a custom auto ballast system, but I feel like I really have a crappy solution. I have an 89 malibu sunsetter and it doesn't see that there is any room below the floor boards for sacks (can't get under the sides as they are blocked off by the stringers. The only place i can get a sac underneath is in the ski locker, and it probably wont hold a ton of weight up there.

Has anyone else experienced this and found better ways to do a custom ballast system to get the bags off the floors completely? I even though about building a custom seat that would basically be a ballast but by my calculations the biggest i could make the seat and still allow the hood to come up, I'd only be able to hold about 700 lbs back there and that seems pretty small to me.

Has anyone else gone through this with this boat and come up with a decent solution? Has anyone else with a DD boat felt this way as well? I'm hoping to come up with some better ideas before hauling off and creating a less than ideal setup. Thanks for your time.

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TheSpleen37
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PostPosted: May 26, 2009 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Built a tank/seat for the back of mine. But like you said, it only holds around 7-800 lbs. You could use lead or something other than water.

Other than that there's no real solution - you only have so much space, and water onlly weighs so much...
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Burke
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PostPosted: May 26, 2009 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I feel your pain as well. I've been racking my brain for a good solution for a while now. I've resolved to the fact that I'll have to use bags all over the floor of the boat. But what I'm working on is at least making the process of filling these bags easier. Instead of having to throw pumps over the side of the boat, I want to get to a point where I pull the bags out, hook up a few hoses, and flip a switch. Having the pumps hooked up to a thru-hull and hard-wired in will make things much easier, not to mention being able to fill/drain while driving to a riding spot or back to the dock.
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PostPosted: May 27, 2009 1:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheSpleen37 wrote:
You should absolutely not use lead or something other than water.


FIFY.

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Wakeboarder3780
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PostPosted: May 27, 2009 4:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I refuse to use anything but water neutral weight (which would only be water). When the boat starts taking on water (not if - assume it will happen) I'll have the peace of mind knowing that my boat isn't going all the way to the bottom.

Burke, I plan on doing the exact same thing that you are talking about. I'm going to hook up 2 reversible pumps (brand I'm buying is Simer BW85P) to a DPDT switch (so i can actually reverse them) and hook the pumps up to the raw water intake (so I don't have to screw around with through hulls).

There is still a lot of screwing around to deal with though, as there are very tedious threading issues to deal with. Through hulls including raw water use NPS (straight) thread while any fittings you're used to seeing are NPT (tapered). So you can't just go to your hardware store, pick up some shut off valves and a tee and off you go.

Anyways if you can wait I'll post an exhaustive review on everything I found out and bought including links, but that wont be for another month or two.

In the end I will have the scenario you described. There will be 2 bags on the floor and one under the ski locker with hoses running to them. I will flip a switch but have to watch to make sure i don't over fill (not going to screw with vent lines in my system, but I may change my mind - we'll see). Then I will also have to watch when emptying to make sure I don't run the pumps dry.

It will take about 15 minutes for a fill, and 15 for an empty. In the meantime I will state that I really hate that multiple thread types even exist. Standardize, Standardize, STANDARDIZE Shocked Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad

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Burke
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PostPosted: May 27, 2009 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm on a very similar path. I've looked at the Simer pumps, but the fact that they are not ignition protected keeps shooting down my plans. I'd like to put the pumps and the plumbing in the bilge area, but that's a bad idea with the Simer's. Running additional lines to get the pumps behind a seat or out of the bilge will be difficult.

I've also considered just taping into the raw water intake, but I'm concerned that when running the pumps, I might end up stealing too much water and strangling the cooling system for the engine.

Keep us posted on your progress. It's always nice to see how others are tackling the DD auto-ballast issues.
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Wakeboarder3780
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PostPosted: May 28, 2009 5:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have the same thoughts/fears about the water intake. However I thought to myself and i couldn't really imagine a time when I would be filling on the go. I go out with people who don't usually board and dont want ballasts, so the only time its ever getting filled is inbetween sets and the engine is off at that time anyway.

However, I have heard others have tapped the raw water and only noticed a few degree difference. I don't think it's ideal because you're probably choking the ballast pumps and making them suck hard than they have to if you run it while the engine is on, but hey those are my thoughts.

It really isn't that hard to toss an additional through hull in the bottom. Most people get scared about drilling into their boat, but cmon it's just fiberglass. If you royally screw it up, you can just patch it up and re-gel anyway Wink

but with careful planning you'll only have to drill once and then you can put a dedicated through hull in for the pumps as an alternative.

All that being said - if anyone else has looked into parts before - I'm severely struggling with the thread mismatch issues. You can get an adapter of sorts to go from NPS (through hull) to NPT thread so you can use more familiar adapters from your hardware store - but thats 40 bucks just for the adapter:
http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/producte/10001/-1/10001/269296?&cid=chanintel&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=269296.

Then you still need a shutoff valve (if you're going to do it safe) and a "tee" if you are going off the raw water - otherwise you just need the shutoff and you can go from there. Anyway you cut it - you'll be dropping about 100 bucks on intake fittings before you ever really start your project - then you still have all your hose to buy, splitting fittings / additional hose / pumps.

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beast95451
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PostPosted: May 29, 2009 8:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did a ballast install on my '93 Sunsetter this winter. Tested it out last night & am VERY happy with the results. 2 Simer pumps, 2 thruhulls, Contura switches on the dash. 1 flyhigh rear seat sac. 1 locker sac. I figure it's about 1000lbs. Mine is a Euro F3 so the rear seat cushion is designed to sit on the arm rests for a big sun deck. When boarding the rear seat sac goes underneath of that on a carpeted box I made. The 2 pumps are under the rear seat. Kind of hard to explain...but works great. People can even sit on the rear sac or the sundeck when riding. When done riding the seat goes back to normal & the bag get stored away. everything hidden. NO BAGS ON THE FLOOR..YAY! I'll get some pics of the install one of these days.
I too was worried about the thread issue. But everything worked. Here is what I ordered...best prices I could find btw.
3/4" thruhulls- http://www.boatownerswarehouse.com/browse.cfm/2,6316.html
3/4" street elbow- http://www.boatownerswarehouse.com/browse.cfm/2,846.html
I just used (2) 3/4" brass ball valves (NPT) I got at the hardware store. everything screwed together fine...no leaks. I didn't think 1000lbs would do that much, but the wake is worlds better.
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beast95451
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PostPosted: May 30, 2009 5:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is a few pictures I took last night. One of these days I'll get a before & after pic of the wake. Still need to mount the pumps to a carpeted piece of plywood under the seat, just to clean it up a bit.








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Wakeboarder3780
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PostPosted: Jun 01, 2009 6:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

beast95451, How long does it take you for a fill/drain?
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PostPosted: Jun 01, 2009 7:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I haven't timed it. Not long though.
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Wakeboarder3780
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PostPosted: Jun 04, 2009 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

beast95451, one more question - were those switches you used AC or DC switches? For DPDT all i can seem to find is AC power switches..
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taitrt
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PostPosted: Jun 04, 2009 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062531

There's really no reason an AC DPDT wouldn't work though....
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Wakeboarder3780
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PostPosted: Jun 04, 2009 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

taitrt, I hate myself. That was my first instinct, but the fleet farm guy said "oh no they definitely wont have that" when i asked who else might have it. Glad I abondoned my instinct and gave up all hope. Luckily you saved the day. Kudos my friend, kudos.

Now to figure out a nice little box i could mount 3 of them in! Muhah! Colorful

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PostPosted: Jun 10, 2009 6:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well in case anyone was following this for like DD issues. After discovering how much money you need to drop just to put a through hull fitting in, along with finding out how much nylon braided hoses are ALONG with all the fitting necessary to make 2 pumps power 3 bags.. I opted to buy a pump for each bag (55 a piece at local hardware store fleet farm). Since the Simer pump i bought (BW85P) normally use garden hose fittings, and so do the straighline bags i have.. I plan on using plain old garden hoses to hook everything up.

In addition there will be no through hulls. The 3 hoses will run along the side of the boat in the cubbys and when i want to fill or drain, I will toss the 3 over the side and off you go.

A few reasons I went for this setup. 1, nothing i bought is wasted on my next boat (only plan on having this one for about 5-7 years). 2, huge cost benefit. 3, a lot easier installation.

It will be a little more work to toss the hoses over the side all the time, but hey its a DD. There is no perfect solution so why try.

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stinky_1
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PostPosted: Nov 13, 2009 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am looking at this problem right now as well. My thoughts are to build a custom rear seat, then carpet it. Have it the exact dimensions of a fat sac seat. Then just fill it up INSIDE the wooden box, with a thin bit of padding on top to make it an actual seat. The idea is that when the sac is deflated, I will have some storage for life jackets and such.

I dont have a ski locker, so I will be looking at a sac or two to put in the front bow section to level the boat out.

And finally, I am planning for one of the fat sac bricks. They are around 150 lbs, and I can move that around to counter the weight of passengers. This is really the only thing that will be hanging out where everyone else is tripping over. And will mostly only get used when I have just the driver and spotter in the boat.

As far as fillig goes, I was hoping to get away with just one fill pump, and a T off the fresh water through hull that is all ready there. This will save on costs that way. And then have a long enough hose on the pump to plug it into all the sacs.

I may consider piping the sacs up to just be integrated, but havnt thought that far into it yet. For now the boat is under 2 tarps until spring anyway, so no hurry here.

I will post some pics once I have it all together

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