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brew
Wakeboarder.com Freak
Joined: 09 Aug 2005
Posts: 2778
City: Jackson
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 Posted: Jul 30, 2009 5:14 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | This is why I think that the police profession should be accountable to a board of civilians. |
I think stiffer penalties should be put into place for those in a position of power that abuse it.
I don't think civilian oversight is the answer, because you would have a similar issue. The civilians in the position of oversight would be just as likely to feel above the law and abuse it, since they have some control over the law at that point. Plus, I trust the police more than I trust my neighbor regulating the police.
I think you and others on this board way overblow the issues in law enforcement based on a few videos and articles that make the rounds. I know a lot of cops and I know a few bad ones, but they are the vast minority. |
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Neognosis
Ladies Man
Joined: 13 Jan 2003
Posts: 17617
City: Webster
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| Posted: Jul 30, 2009 5:23 am Post subject: |
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But stiffer penalties are only going to make cops that are on the fence about covering up for their friends decide to cover up for them.
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The civilians in the position of oversight would be just as likely to feel above the law and abuse it, since they have some control over the law at that point
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That's really a stretch. If I"m on a board that reviews police complaints, how is that going to make me feel entitled to speed when I'm not at work, or fudge the time on a report to make it seem like I wasn't sleeping or playing cards on duty, or whatever?
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Plus, I trust the police more than I trust my neighbor regulating the police.
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I find that to be absolutely ridiculous, especially when you have to know that most cops are corrupt... it's just a matter of degree.
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I think you and others on this board way overblow the issues in law enforcement based on a few videos and articles that make the rounds. I know a lot of cops and I know a few bad ones, but they are the vast minority.
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first, for every video that makes it online, how many abuses do you think happened that just got covered up or they didn't get caught? Plus, I wager that a lot of us have dealt with cops that either were somewhat crooked, or made us feel unnecessarily intimidaged or whatever. And I'm related to a handful of cops. And of all of them, (and they are all good people, trust me) only ONE doesn't abuse his badge. I'm not talking shaking people down for cash, I'm talking about speeding, or breaking minor laws with the attitude that they are above such minor laws. One of them is as straight as an arrow, but even he complains that he HAS to let certain people go on the highway, or else his fellow cops will make his professional life a living hell.
What the hell is that about?
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I walk 47 miles of barb wire, I got a cobra snake for a necktie, a brand new house up on the road side, and it's made out of rattlesnake hide |
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joebananas
Wakeboarder.Commie
Joined: 23 Feb 2007
Posts: 1246
City: Grand Island, NY
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| Posted: Jul 30, 2009 5:28 am Post subject: |
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first, for every video that makes it online, how many abuses do you think happened that just got covered up or they didn't get caught? Plus, I wager that a lot of us have dealt with cops that either were somewhat crooked, or made us feel unnecessarily intimidaged or whatever. And I'm related to a handful of cops. And of all of them, (and they are all good people, trust me) only ONE doesn't abuse his badge. I'm not talking shaking people down for cash, I'm talking about speeding, or breaking minor laws with the attitude that they are above such minor laws. One of them is as straight as an arrow, but even he complains that he HAS to let certain people go on the highway, or else his fellow cops will make his professional life a living hell.
What the hell is that about?
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welcome to life. where the hell have you been for the past 30 odd years? |
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brew
Wakeboarder.com Freak
Joined: 09 Aug 2005
Posts: 2778
City: Jackson
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| Posted: Jul 30, 2009 5:28 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | I guess the best you can hope for when a cop pulls you over or you have to deal with one is that the guy you are dealing with is only corrupt to the level of fixing a few tickets, DWI, and speeding when off duty. Maybe you get one of the really good ones who don't do those things, but just let that kind of thing go on and do nothing. And 1 in a thousand you get a totally honest cop who doesn't even take advantage of his badge in minor ways AND polices his fellow cops. But I suspect that they make this guy quit sooner or later anyway....
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Wow, feeling a little melodramatic today? If you're calling a cop corrupt for not following every law to the tee when off duty, then I've got no argument. I'm sure they all speed, as does 99% of the rest of society.
As far as fixing tickets, are you including letting people go after they've been pulled over. Again, all cops let people go with warnings. I've been let go with warnings by cops I don't know. Does that make them corrupt?
I think we have a very different view of what is considered corruption in law enforcement.
| Quote: | | IMO, cops are just a necessary evil. |
One of these days if/when you truly need them, I'm sure they will show up and do their jobs regardless of what you're personal feelings are towards them. |
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joebananas
Wakeboarder.Commie
Joined: 23 Feb 2007
Posts: 1246
City: Grand Island, NY
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| Posted: Jul 30, 2009 5:34 am Post subject: |
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One of these days if/when you truly need them, I'm sure they will show up and do their jobs regardless of what you're personal feelings are towards them.
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but if the officer that responds doesn't take the time out of his day to kiss and wipe CB's ass. LOOK OUT!! |
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Neognosis
Ladies Man
Joined: 13 Jan 2003
Posts: 17617
City: Webster
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| Posted: Jul 30, 2009 5:40 am Post subject: |
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If you're calling a cop corrupt for not following every law to the tee when off duty, then I've got no argument.
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Like I said, it's a matter of degree.
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I'm sure they all speed, as does 99% of the rest of society.
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And so do I. But when I get caught, there's penalty. i don't speed thinking that I have the right to simply because my friends won't ticket me. It's all about levels, the way I see it. And the way I see it, you have, with cops:
Completely clean, model cop, reports his fellow cops when they act inappropriately, or at least confronts them
cops that don't break the law, but just let their fellow cops do so
cops that speed off duty an don't care
cops that drive intoxicated off duty
cops that get into fights off duty with a sense of impunity and are bullies
cops that are bullies on the job
cops that actually beat people up needlessly
cops that shake people down on the job
cops that falsify evidence
Hopefully, as the ladder spirals down, the number of cops at that level decreases greatly.
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As far as fixing tickets, are you including letting people go after they've been pulled over. Again, all cops let people go with warnings. I've been let go with warnings by cops I don't know. Does that make them corrupt?
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Me too. One time a cop let me go for speeding just because I seemed like a nice guy and it was late and the speed zone was not perfectly clear. I appreciated that. But that's not exactly the same as letting other cops go, or friends go, consistently because they are other cops or your friends. It's about an unbiased application of the law.
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One of these days if/when you truly need them, I'm sure they will show up and do their jobs regardless of what you're personal feelings are towards them.
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When am I going to "truly need" a cop? Now, if you were talking about firefighters, those guys you truly need, and when they show up, nobody is ever like "shoot, here come the f'ing firefighters, damit." No. But when's a cop going to help me out? Most likely, they will show up after I actually "need" something to take a report and then ultimately tell me there's nothing they can do.
I do agree that when they catch a criminal or stop a person who is driving wrecklessly, that's a benefit to me because then that criminal won't have a chance to victimize me or crash into me, and that's their most valuable function to society, IMO. That and running programs that are designed to prevent crime. And I appreciate that, I really do, and I understand how hard their job is.
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I walk 47 miles of barb wire, I got a cobra snake for a necktie, a brand new house up on the road side, and it's made out of rattlesnake hide |
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ontrider
Ladies Man
Joined: 30 Jul 2003
Posts: 16491
City: Russia
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| Posted: Jul 30, 2009 8:10 am Post subject: |
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| cameraboy, why don't you take your list there and replace the first word on each line with "every profession ever" |
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lawdog2131
Outlaw
Joined: 21 Jul 2008
Posts: 141
City: Near South Bend
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| Posted: Jul 30, 2009 9:21 am Post subject: |
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I think stiffer penalties should be put into place for those in a position of power that abuse it.
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I guess the 6th amendment only applies to Joe Blow citizen and not EVERY citizen in the United States. We should pick and choose which laws apply to different people. Now if that's not a corrupt system I dont know what is. The Hypocrasy kills me.
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Me too. One time a cop let me go for speeding just because I seemed like a nice guy and it was late and the speed zone was not perfectly clear. I appreciated that.
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Again it's ok to let Cameraboy off with a warning but when it comes to another police officer or somebody who knows a police officer you have to have a different set of rules that are more strict. (By the way there are federal laws that do hold police more accountable if you do a little research, it mostly involves more serious offenses though) |
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brew
Wakeboarder.com Freak
Joined: 09 Aug 2005
Posts: 2778
City: Jackson
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| Posted: Jul 30, 2009 11:13 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | I guess the 6th amendment only applies to Joe Blow citizen and not EVERY citizen in the United States. We should pick and choose which laws apply to different people. Now if that's not a corrupt system I dont know what is. The Hypocrasy kills me.
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You should really read my posts, because if you haven't noticed I'm one of the few guys on here defending law enforcement as I do whenever these discussions come up.
I think there should be stiffer penalties for law enforcement officers on beating a suspect, fabricating evidence, covering up a crime, etc. than what the average citizen would get for assault or accessory to a crime. They're sworn in to uphold a higher standard. You can disagree if you want, but I would think being a cop you would be all for holding your fellow officers up to a little bit higher standard. Maybe not. |
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Neognosis
Ladies Man
Joined: 13 Jan 2003
Posts: 17617
City: Webster
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| Posted: Jul 30, 2009 11:19 am Post subject: |
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cameraboy, why don't you take your list there and replace the first word on each line with "every profession ever"
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Every profession ever is not in charge of upholding the laws of their jurisdiction and protecting and serving the people. And I never claimed that there wasn't corruption in other professions. Clearly there is.
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Again it's ok to let Cameraboy off with a warning but when it comes to another police officer or somebody who knows a police officer you have to have a different set of rules that are more strict.
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Again, you don't get it. I suspect it's because you ARE a cop and you don't want to get it. Do you automatically let every cop blow by due to professional courtesy? Do you have one set of standards for Joe Citizen and another for your fellow cops?
Talk about hypocricy. Serve and protect? Serve and protect me from the cops who put me in danger by speeding and driving drunk. It's ME you serve and protect, not your fellow police officers. If you let some officers go, hey, fine. If you let all police officers go as a matter of unwritten rule, there's a problem. Or if someone gets a free pass simply because they are a police officer, that's not right either.
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I guess the 6th amendment only applies to Joe Blow citizen and not EVERY citizen in the United States. We should pick and choose which laws apply to different people. Now if that's not a corrupt system I dont know what is. The Hypocrasy kills me.
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There have to be different "rules" for cops. Joe Citizen can't put someone in prison by falsifying a police report. Joe Citizen can't issue tickets, can't arrest people, can't legally beat on a guy. So there need to be rules for those things that are different than for civilians. Just like there are rules for engineers about how they have to build and the materials they have to use. Joe average doesn't build structures that peopel will use ever yday either.
_________________
I walk 47 miles of barb wire, I got a cobra snake for a necktie, a brand new house up on the road side, and it's made out of rattlesnake hide |
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brew
Wakeboarder.com Freak
Joined: 09 Aug 2005
Posts: 2778
City: Jackson
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| Posted: Jul 30, 2009 11:44 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Talk about hypocricy. Serve and protect? Serve and protect me from the cops who put me in danger by speeding and driving drunk. It's ME you serve and protect, not your fellow police officers. If you let some officers go, hey, fine. If you let all police officers go as a matter of unwritten rule, there's a problem. Or if someone gets a free pass simply because they are a police officer, that's not right either.
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This I agree with. Our definitions of corruption are different in this discussion, but I think we probably agree on what they should and shouldn't do. I just don't think them letting their fellow officer speed by makes them all a corrupt bunch that I can't respect. I agree that it's not right, but just disagree with terminology. |
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Neognosis
Ladies Man
Joined: 13 Jan 2003
Posts: 17617
City: Webster
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| Posted: Jul 30, 2009 2:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | This I agree with. Our definitions of corruption are different in this discussion, but I think we probably agree on what they should and shouldn't do. |
But corruption starts small. Rare is the cop who joins the force with the idea of serving his community, then someone offers him a bribe to let some crack dealers slide on a corner in his town, and he just takes it. No, it starts with looking the other way for his fellow officers, then maybe letting a prostitute who reminds him of his sister go, then maybe he doesn't report a fellow cop for taking a bribe... then he's started the spiral down. know what I mean?
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I walk 47 miles of barb wire, I got a cobra snake for a necktie, a brand new house up on the road side, and it's made out of rattlesnake hide |
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TnR6Rida
Wakeboarder.com Freak
Joined: 11 Mar 2008
Posts: 4905
City: West TN
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| Posted: Jul 30, 2009 2:38 pm Post subject: |
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| cameraboy wrote: |
then maybe letting a prostitute who reminds him of his sister go, |
Lol what   |
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Neognosis
Ladies Man
Joined: 13 Jan 2003
Posts: 17617
City: Webster
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| Posted: Jul 30, 2009 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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you know, the old "sister whore look alike" routine.
haha
_________________
I walk 47 miles of barb wire, I got a cobra snake for a necktie, a brand new house up on the road side, and it's made out of rattlesnake hide |
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jt09
Ladies Man
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 22083
City: Austin
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Neognosis
Ladies Man
Joined: 13 Jan 2003
Posts: 17617
City: Webster
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| Posted: Aug 22, 2009 3:57 pm Post subject: |
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I can't even hit play. If it is serious, I know it will enrage me beyond all logic and reason.
_________________
I walk 47 miles of barb wire, I got a cobra snake for a necktie, a brand new house up on the road side, and it's made out of rattlesnake hide |
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ontrider
Ladies Man
Joined: 30 Jul 2003
Posts: 16491
City: Russia
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| Posted: Aug 22, 2009 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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I love dogs, but the police did the right thing here. I've seen loose dogs like this viciously attack animal control officers trying to catch them, so they can't just be running around like that. If it was a beagle or something, yeah different story for sure.
But, if you really want some people to side with you and bash the pigs, just read through all the youtube comments below the video that the 14 year olds have posted. |
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ontrider
Ladies Man
Joined: 30 Jul 2003
Posts: 16491
City: Russia
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jt09
Ladies Man
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 22083
City: Austin
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| Posted: Aug 22, 2009 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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ontrider, you have to be shitting me. i can MAYBE get w/ the 1st tasering, but the 2nd? wtf? why did the dog need to be tasered a 2nd time? when it was already in the noose and under control?
seriously - this all goes back to LAZY cops w/ toys. |
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ontrider
Ladies Man
Joined: 30 Jul 2003
Posts: 16491
City: Russia
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| Posted: Aug 22, 2009 5:21 pm Post subject: |
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The dog looked like it was squirming and trying to bite anyone within 10 feet of it while it was in the catch pole, but the video conveniently cut out. They tazed it so it didn't bite anyone since the dogs lazy ass owner wasn't around to come get it.
Sorry, public safety comes ahead of random aggressive dogs running loose without their owners. I think you're getting emotions involved since it was a DOG that got tazed... what if it was a coyote or a raccoon they snagged and then got aggressive towards them? That dog poses as much or more of a threat. I also think you have a personal beef with cops for some reason, not sure why though. |
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jt09
Ladies Man
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 22083
City: Austin
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| Posted: Aug 22, 2009 5:26 pm Post subject: |
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| ontrider wrote: | | while it was in the catch pole |
the damn thing can't bite anyone if it's in the damn catch pole! everyone is safe! NO REASON to tase it again. NONE.[/i] |
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ontrider
Ladies Man
Joined: 30 Jul 2003
Posts: 16491
City: Russia
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| Posted: Aug 22, 2009 5:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Okay, you're right. |
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Wake Trakker
Outlaw
Joined: 19 Feb 2009
Posts: 139
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| Posted: Aug 22, 2009 7:54 pm Post subject: |
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There is this revolutionary new technique for subduing a dog. It goes like this:
Put you hand out and say “Here boy, here boy.” 98 times out of 100 the dog will then let you rub its belly. 
My friends dog got pepper sprayed last year by some rangers when we were camping. His dog is a boxer like the one in the video. I know for a fact that the dog is 100% non aggressive. @$$ Holes!!
A barking dog does not mean an aggressive dog. Anybody with a minimal understanding of dog behavior would say that the dog in the video was just alerting its owner. This could have been handled way less dramatic.
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Last edited by Wake Trakker on Aug 22, 2009 9:51 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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lawdog2131
Outlaw
Joined: 21 Jul 2008
Posts: 141
City: Near South Bend
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| Posted: Aug 22, 2009 9:20 pm Post subject: |
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Anybody with a minimal understanding of dog behavior would say that the dog in the video was just alerting is owner.
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So you also know that dogs do not see in color correct? This is why they have such a great sense of smell. Most dogs dont like people who wear solid colors such as a police officer in uniform. All the dog can see is a large blob type figure when someone is wearing dark clothing. |
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Neognosis
Ladies Man
Joined: 13 Jan 2003
Posts: 17617
City: Webster
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| Posted: Aug 23, 2009 4:15 am Post subject: |
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Most dogs don't like people who wear solid colors? That sounds utterly ridiculous, and like a line they tell you in cop school so you don't feel bad about macing or shooting someone's dog. I'll tell you what most dogs DON'T like for real though, threatening people who mean them harm, invade their homes, and threaten their pack. Also aggressive people who have big chips on their shoulders.
They have a great sense of smell because they don't see in color? That's equally ridiculous. Who the hell told you this nonsense? One has nothing to do with the other.
First off, dogs DO see in color. Just not the same colors we do. Second, IF SOMEONE IS WEARING ALL ONE COLOR, IT WOULDN'T MATTER IF THEY COULD OR COULDN'T SEE IN COLOR, AS IT'S ALL THE SAME COLOR, ISN'T IT?
So the dog sees a brown blob where a human sees a blue blob. WTF? That's not even true either. Though the dog sees your uniform as a different color, that dog knows what cologne you wear, what you had for lunch, if you are nervous or angry, if you farted within the last 1/2 hour, what hair products you use, and if you got some morning nookie before work. They also have an uncanny ability to determine if you are an door knob almost right away.
Based on the number of labradors that get shot (one notorious case in my area a few years back by an off duty cop taking a walk who shot and killed a LABRADOR who ran up to him. The dog was well known as a big, friendly, cuddly teddy bear by the rest of the neighborhood) I would say it certainly seems that the education police get regarding dogs is one sided, biased, and inaccurate.
I suspect you are taught that a dog is meaningless, and if you even feel a little bit threatened, go ahead and kill it. And I suspect this translates to a license to kill animals that are not actually threats for some cops.
_________________
I walk 47 miles of barb wire, I got a cobra snake for a necktie, a brand new house up on the road side, and it's made out of rattlesnake hide |
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franzflip
Criminal
Joined: 29 Apr 2009
Posts: 97
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| Posted: Aug 23, 2009 4:15 am Post subject: |
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That freaking cop is so gay hitting women.  |
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ontrider
Ladies Man
Joined: 30 Jul 2003
Posts: 16491
City: Russia
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| Posted: Aug 23, 2009 5:50 am Post subject: |
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cameraboy, you're a canine behaviour expert now too? You know just about everything about everything, you're like a walking encyclopedia.
But check this out - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cn1n1eK1YQ8&feature=fvw
Now you have the proof. All Labs = Vicious... it's on youtube. |
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Neognosis
Ladies Man
Joined: 13 Jan 2003
Posts: 17617
City: Webster
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| Posted: Aug 23, 2009 7:06 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | cameraboy, you're a canine behaviour expert now too? Laughing You know just about everything about everything, you're like a walking encyclopedia. |
I know it can seem that way sometimes. But see all the threads where I only ask a question or don't post at all? That's because they are about something that I DON'T know much about. This doesn't seem to be an issue for some other posters though.
_________________
I walk 47 miles of barb wire, I got a cobra snake for a necktie, a brand new house up on the road side, and it's made out of rattlesnake hide |
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JV
Wakeboarder.com Freak
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
Posts: 3881
City: San Diego
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| Posted: Aug 23, 2009 8:51 am Post subject: |
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We get it, cops are evil. Let's fire 'em all, abolish all gun control laws, and pass out Desert Eagles with a purchase of a Happy Meal. Then, we can settle things ol' West style. Me likey.
CB, you continue to ignore the elephant in the room: MONEY. You live in a dream world where you think people like doctors should work 48 hour shifts, deal with blood, guts, and death on a daily basis, and have to always be the bearer of bad news simply for the pleasure of serving mankind.
If you want better cops, request your taxes be raised and pay them as such. The best and brightest, right now, don't grow up wanting to be cops, and how could you blame them when you look at the average cop's salary. Compensate them for how dangerous and demanding their job is, create more competition in the academies, make the testing process more difficult, and weed out some of the people that get through now.
Today, a good cop that pulls over an off-duty officer for drinking and driving realizes that if a DUI leads to that officer getting fired, his wife and kids are immediately financially screwed. You can be pissed that the officer would endanger the lives of others and you can consider yourself to be morally righteous; that's still a frickin' tough decision. It would be a little easier if you knew the officer had something in savings to fall back on.
Raise police salaries and hold them to a higher standard (letting then know there's 5 fully qualified applicants waiting to take their job...as opposed to them being dangerously understaffed like many precincts are now) and see what happens.
How often do you hear about corrupt or inept fireman? Not often, right? That's because the profession has created a competitive environment, and they have enough applicants that they aren't forced to take just anybody. My cousin has been trying to join up for years now and failing, despite being a physical specimen, incredibly inteliigent, a Westpoint grad, and having a father and uncle on a ladder.
Like every other profession ever, the more money you pay cops, the more competitive and qualified the candidate pool will be.
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Neognosis
Ladies Man
Joined: 13 Jan 2003
Posts: 17617
City: Webster
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| Posted: Aug 23, 2009 11:44 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | CB, you continue to ignore the elephant in the room: MONEY. You live in a dream world where you think people like doctors should work 48 hour shifts, deal with blood, guts, and death on a daily basis, and have to always be the bearer of bad news simply for the pleasure of serving mankind. |
That's not even remotely true.
| Quote: | | If you want better cops, request your taxes be raised and pay them as such. The best and brightest, right now, don't grow up wanting to be cops, and how could you blame them when you look at the average cop's salary. |
DON'T MAKE ME F'ING LAUGH WITH THAT SIHT.
Do you know that the cops here reture on 3/4 pay after 20 years? Or that they get virtually unlimited disability for things that woudl have the rest of us having to find another job? Or that their jobs are extremely secure? Cry me a river. They have it pretty good.
| Quote: | | Today, a good cop that pulls over an off-duty officer for drinking and driving realizes that if a DUI leads to that officer getting fired, his wife and kids are immediately financially screwed. |
Funny, they dont' seem to think about that when it's a non-cop getting a DUI. How about they take responsibility for drinking and driving? What happened to individual responsibility and accountability that people are always crying about on this board? It goes away if you are a cop, I guess. How about if one DUI loses you your job and pension, you just don't drink and then drive a car?
| Quote: | | Raise police salaries and hold them to a higher standard (letting then know there's 5 fully qualified applicants waiting to take their job. |
Do you have any idea how many people sit for the police exam here in rochester? Or the NYS trooper exam? MANY MANY MANY people. So many, that they have to virtually come up with reasons to not hire people, there are so many.
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I walk 47 miles of barb wire, I got a cobra snake for a necktie, a brand new house up on the road side, and it's made out of rattlesnake hide |
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JV
Wakeboarder.com Freak
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
Posts: 3881
City: San Diego
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| Posted: Aug 23, 2009 12:19 pm Post subject: |
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| cameraboy wrote: | | Quote: | | CB, you continue to ignore the elephant in the room: MONEY. You live in a dream world where you think people like doctors should work 48 hour shifts, deal with blood, guts, and death on a daily basis, and have to always be the bearer of bad news simply for the pleasure of serving mankind. |
That's not even remotely true. |
Funny. I'll bet you $1000 I can dig up a thread where you said you wish doctors were paid less to get rid of the ones just in it for the money.
| Quote: | If you want better cops, request your taxes be raised and pay them as such. The best and brightest, right now, don't grow up wanting to be cops, and how could you blame them when you look at the average cop's salary.
| Quote: | DON'T MAKE ME F'ING LAUGH WITH THAT SIHT.
Do you know that the cops here reture on 3/4 pay after 20 years? Or that they get virtually unlimited disability for things that woudl have the rest of us having to find another job? Or that their jobs are extremely secure? Cry me a river. They have it pretty good. |
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Yep, that's what 18-25 year olds think of: their pension plan and disability package  Pension plans don't buy nice houses or cars or put 3 kids through college. As a recent college grad, I never even considered law enforcement despite the bleak job climate, and I don't give two sihts about having a nice whip. I'd imagine anyone at a good school isn't even considering being a cop, despite them "having it pretty good." I don't think a 20 year old's thought process is, "all I have to do is make it 20 years without getting shot, and I get 3/4 of a whopping $40k! And, if I do get shot, who cares, I'm covered. What a sweet gig!" That's asinine.
| Quote: | | Quote: | | Today, a good cop that pulls over an off-duty officer for drinking and driving realizes that if a DUI leads to that officer getting fired, his wife and kids are immediately financially screwed. |
Funny, they dont' seem to think about that when it's a non-cop getting a DUI. How about they take responsibility for drinking and driving? What happened to individual responsibility and accountability that people are always crying about on this board? It goes away if you are a cop, I guess. How about if one DUI loses you your job and pension, you just don't drink and then drive a car? |
How many accountants and lawyers get fired or in serious trouble if they get a DUI? Oh that's right, none. They don't even have to tell their employer until you apply for a new job.
I'd be okay for a no tolerance policy in law enforcement, but it's certainly not going to stop the buddy system. If I pull over an 18 year vet two blocks from his house with a .10 BAC, I'm not going to give him a DUI if I know for certain he'll be fired and have to kiss his pension goodbye, whether I know him or not. I'd tell him next time I won't be so accomodating and escort him home. You really expect guys getting paid just north of elementary teachers are going to f with their fellow officers' livelihoods so they can be looked at as pariahs and snitches. Wow, your moral compass is off the charts.
| Quote: | | Do you have any idea how many people sit for the police exam here in rochester? Or the NYS trooper exam? MANY MANY MANY people. So many, that they have to virtually come up with reasons to not hire people, there are so many. |
And how many of them are college graduates? Up the test difficulty extensively and raise salaries, and I bet the aptitude of the recruit pool also increases.
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JV
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| Posted: Aug 23, 2009 12:24 pm Post subject: |
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Police Patrol Officer 25th%ile Median 75th%ile
the United States $40,952 $49,158 $57,993
I'm two months out of college and making considerably more than the 75th%ile by staring at a computer screen for 8 hours. Yep, cops have it REAL good.
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Neognosis
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| Posted: Aug 23, 2009 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Funny. I'll bet you $1000 I can dig up a thread where you said you wish doctors were paid less to get rid of the ones just in it for the money. |
do it then.
so then the thousand or so plus people in their 20's and early 30's that sit for the police exams are there why? They figured they thought sitting 6 hours for an exam, then taking a physical agility test was a fun way to waste a few weeks?
50 grand is the median? that's pretty good to me. I didnt' break 50K until I was 35, and I have a college degree.
And how do you like staring at a computer screen all day?
Moral compas? You think that letting drunks go is the MORAL thing to do? Where's your compass pointing? To yourself, it appears. (I don't know what that means....)
| Quote: | | Up the test difficulty extensively and raise salaries, and I bet the aptitude of the recruit pool also increases. |
I can agree with that. But then people would cry about their property taxes going up to pay for the salaries.
| Quote: | | I'm two months out of college and making considerably more than the 75th%ile by staring at a computer screen for 8 hours. Yep, cops have it REAL good. |
They do. They don't sit at a desk and stare at a computer. They don't worry about getting fired. They don't worry that the market will crash and they will lose their retirement. they have to worry about other things though, but guaranteed yearly wages, guarenteed pension, disability, etc. PLUS a good salary (yes, 50K is a GOOD salary when you look at what everyone else makes... and if you make sergeant, detective, or captain, etc. you make more and more.)
And being a cop is not even in the top 10 most dangerous jobs.
Make it tougher to be a cop? Sure. I agree to that. Pay them more? Sure, I suppose. But don't be using their salaries, pensions, fringe benefits, etc. as a justification or excuse for corruption.
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JV
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| Posted: Aug 23, 2009 3:36 pm Post subject: |
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| cameraboy wrote: | | Quote: | | Funny. I'll bet you $1000 I can dig up a thread where you said you wish doctors were paid less to get rid of the ones just in it for the money. |
do it then. |
Agree to the bet, and I will no problem. Otherwise, I have no desire to sift through thousands of CB posts. Make it $20
| Quote: | | so then the thousand or so plus people in their 20's and early 30's that sit for the police exams are there why? They figured they thought sitting 6 hours for an exam, then taking a physical agility test was a fun way to waste a few weeks? |
I was referring to 18-25 year olds with a higher education, my mistake. Again, how many of the people taking the exams are college educated and/or have reasonable opportunities at more lucrative jobs?
| Quote: | 50 grand is the median? that's pretty good to me. I didnt' break 50K until I was 35, and I have a college degree.
And how do you like staring at a computer screen all day? |
Love it actually, and certainly wouldn't trade it to deal with the dregs of society on a daily basis. I'm designing some pretty cool siht. And when I get a little more comfortable they'll let me get my hands dirty on some of the mechanical stuff.
50k in Iowa is plenty. 50k (less then 40k starting salary) in NYC ain't gonna cut it, especially with multiple kids. How many cops in that area are Irish?
| Quote: | | Moral compas? You think that letting drunks go is the MORAL thing to do? Where's your compass pointing? To yourself, it appears. (I don't know what that means....) |
Not what I'm saying. I'm saying how are you not seeing how turning in a fellow officer--at risk of ruining both his and your career--is a difficult decision, even for the most righteous in the ranks?
| Quote: | | Quote: | | Up the test difficulty extensively and raise salaries, and I bet the aptitude of the recruit pool also increases. |
I can agree with that. But then people would cry about their property taxes going up to pay for the salaries. |
You can't have it both ways. You want police to be held to a higher standard (which they should be as protectors of our society), you'd better pay them accordingly, and not akin to DMV desk jockees.
Tell a cop patrolling East LA his job isn't in the top 10. Plus, the most dangerous professions (fisherman, etc.) are sure as hell making more than $50k if you pro-rate their keep over a year.
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JV
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| Posted: Aug 23, 2009 3:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
50K is a GOOD salary when you look at what everyone else makes
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But their job is more demanding and more critical to the wellbeing of our society's than Joe Blow's. Make the professional more desired, more elite, and I guarantee you'll attract a larger percentage of recruits willing and able to live up to the high standards of the badge.
Right now, the military and law enforcement attract a good percentage of people who aren't qualified to make as much or have as many benefits anywhere else. The military does a fairly good job of weeding out god complex soldiers and the like before they become officers. The police force does not. That's the problem.
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