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J-Ro
PityDaFool Who Posts This Much
Joined: 13 Jan 2003
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City: Rocklin
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 Posted: May 28, 2009 8:57 am Post subject: Shocking Political Hypocrisy |
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Let me preface this by saying EVERY politician does this and yes I know the source is Fox but the facts can be pried out of the BS.
Didn't Obama lambaste executives for taking trips to Vegas on the "Taxpayers dime" not 3 months ago? Now his staff has a BS reason to go to Nellis AFB outside of Vegas so the DNC doesn't have to pay the majority of the tab. Maybe it was an Area 51 briefing (Coincidentally while Reid is having a fundraiser).
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/05/27/presidential-fundraising-trips-cost-taxpayers-thousands/
| Quote: | President Obama has the star power to raise millions of dollars for the candidates and organizations he graces with his stump speech.
But when the president hit the road Tuesday for a two-day fundraising tour to pack the party coffers, he also was racking up a $265,000 partisan bill for just one leg of the trip, according to a watchdog group -- part of which taxpayers, regardless of party affiliation, will have to pay.
Obama started out in Las Vegas, where he stumped that night for state Democrats and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid. On Wednesday night he was to attend a two-tiered donor dinner for the Democratic Party in Los Angeles.
But sandwiched between political appearances, Obama squeezed in some quick public remarks on energy, ironically before burning fuel to Los Angeles, at Nevada's Nellis Air Force Base. It was a key stop, because it gives the entire trip an air of official legitimacy and allows the White House to write off part of the trip under rules governing travel, said Pete Sepp, vice president for policy and communications at the National Taxpayers Union.
"You've got to have some official (business) in the trip somewhere. It becomes almost a game to find some official function to hang the trip on," Sepp said.
The rest, though, is all politics. And, if history is any gauge, the American taxpayer will pick up a large portion of the tab.
Sepp estimated that the purely political part of the trip -- the distance from Las Vegas to Los Angeles and back, with no public events -- would cost at least $265,000, just for air travel expenses.
He said the minimum domestic travel package for the president consists of one Boeing 747, which serves as Air Force One, one back-up dummy plane and one C17 cargo plane. The cost estimate is based on past hourly operational costs for the three aircraft, adjusted for inflation.
White House travel rules, which were developed under the Reagan administration, state that the Air Force pays all costs for the use of the aircraft, but that the government must be reimbursed for airfare, food, lodging and other expenses incurred during whatever portion of the trip is political.
White House spokesman Tommy Vietor said the Democratic National Committee is paying its share for this trip.
"The DNC is paying 100 percent of the legally mandated costs for the trip from Nevada to California, and we are complying fully with all legal requirements," Vietor wrote in an e-mail to FOXNews.com.
But reimbursement for political activities involves a tricky formula, and actual reimbursements typically come nowhere close to compensating the government for the cost of such trips. Secret Service costs, for one, are always footed by the government.
A 2006 report for the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform found that during 2002, political campaigns reimbursed the federal government for $198,000 of the $6.5 million in flight expenses racked up by campaign-related stops made by President George W. Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney. That's 3 percent of the total cost.
Taxpayers paid the remaining $6.3 million.
"The president and vice president can legally participate in campaign and fundraising events for candidates," the report said. "But when they do so, the taxpayer bears most of the cost."
That Obama is raising funds while in office is hardly unusual. Both Bush and Bill Clinton made similar political trips in their presidencies.
Watchdog groups don't suggest that the president shouldn't travel, or even that the president should not travel to political events. Rather, they say the White House should be more forthcoming with its travel expenses and details and establish a more equitable reimbursement program.
"You can't keep the president from traveling. That's what he does. ... No one would suggest he not travel," said Leslie Paige, media director for Citizens Against Government Waste. "What is most important for taxpayers is how much is it costing for this stuff."
"Having more realistic reimbursement rules for political legs of these trips would be quite helpful," Sepp said.
Paige said more transparency is needed, noting it's "very hard" to pry the full costs of these trips from any administration.
The DNC did not respond to a request for comment; Sepp said any DNC reimbursement for Obama's trip this week would be minimal. |
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Neognosis
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Joined: 13 Jan 2003
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City: Webster
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| Posted: May 28, 2009 9:16 am Post subject: |
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This is partisan BS. Rearainge some adjectives and you have "Obama went to give a speech about energy to some key players in the energy field, and also stopped to stump for democratic candidates while there."
If you can't prove, reasonably, that the trip was for the stumping with the speaking on energy as nothing more than an excuse, then STFU.
White House spokesman Tommy Vietor said the Democratic National Committee is paying its share for this trip.
" | Quote: |
The DNC is paying 100 percent of the legally mandated costs for the trip from Nevada to California, and we are complying fully with all legal requirements," Vietor wrote in an e-mail to FOXNews.com.
But reimbursement for political activities involves a tricky formula, and actual reimbursements typically come nowhere close to compensating the government for the cost of such trips. Secret Service costs, for one, are always footed by the government.
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They are fishing now. The DNC is going to pay for what it is required to pay, but oh, there's a tricky formula...
This is reaching.
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edrex
Wakeboarder.Commie
Joined: 24 Dec 2006
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| Posted: May 28, 2009 9:21 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Obama squeezed in some quick public remarks on energy, ironically before burning fuel to Los Angeles, at Nevada's Nellis Air Force Base. |
WTF, do they expect him to walk everywhere he goes?!? 
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J-Ro
PityDaFool Who Posts This Much
Joined: 13 Jan 2003
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City: Rocklin
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| Posted: May 28, 2009 9:29 am Post subject: |
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I think you are reaching. Since when does a President give an energy speech at an AFB that is as off limits as Andrews? A speech that only AFB personnel will see. Of course the DNC is complying, they skirted all the rules to pay the "Minimal" amount.
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If you can't prove, reasonably, that the trip was for the stumping with the speaking on energy as nothing more than an excuse, then STFU.
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You should take your own advice on most of your "Reasonable" assessments. Just because it's "Your" party's BS for once it's not "Reasonable"? If this was Bush you would be all over it.
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The DNC did not respond to a request for comment; Sepp said any DNC reimbursement for Obama's trip this week would be minimal.
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FWIW - I am bored today and would probably argue with a tree if there was one in my office.
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J-Ro
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| Posted: May 28, 2009 9:31 am Post subject: |
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edrex, He should drive his stretched Prius and fly in his glider. 
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Neognosis
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| Posted: May 28, 2009 9:31 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
Since when does a President give an energy speech at an AFB that is as off limits as Andrews? A speech that only AFB personnel will see. Of course the DNC is complying, they skirted all the rules to pay the "Minimal" amount.
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does the article say who was there or give details about what he said? I wonder if another article by another news agency woudl have more complete and less biased information...
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Just because it's "Your" party's BS for once it's not "Reasonable"? If this was Bush you would be all over it.
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Actually, I wasn't, and wouldn't be. There was actual real stuff to be upset about with Bush.
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Okie Boarder
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Joined: 03 Mar 2008
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| Posted: May 28, 2009 9:40 am Post subject: |
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Here's my take...
He's doing a lot of the same things other presidents have, bending the rules a bit. The fact that he condemned executives for bending rules then turns around and does it himself is hypocritical.
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prior40
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| Posted: May 28, 2009 9:48 am Post subject: |
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| I've actually been reading about trips like this in a political science class I am taking right now. It's nothing new, and it probably won't be stopped in the future. As long as a politician has some sort of "official" business to conduct on the trip, whether it be giving a speech or even just talking politics with an official from a foreign or state government, the whole trip can be written off at no personal expense. Another loophole that will continue to be jumped though by politician of BOTH parties. And as for my take on the president bashing some and doing something similar himself, whatever. He's a politician, he says what people want to hear, and they love him for it. He does something that might be hypocritical or shady, he'll take a little heat, have a PR stunt pulled to bring him back into the good graces, and all is well. Same story, just a different politician. |
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J-Ro
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| Posted: May 28, 2009 9:53 am Post subject: |
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prior40, STAR
If he wouldn't have flown to Nevada I probably wouldn't even have made the connection. That and I absolutely despise Harry Reid.
Since it's my thread and I can hijack it, I think there needs to be term or age limits on all politicians and Supreme Court justices. Why was 90 year old Strom Thurmond making decisions that an 18 year old kid has to live with for 60 years (Other than the fact that his constituents are morons)? Oh that's right it won't happen because the people who would have to create the law are the ones who would get hosed.
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Nooga678
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Joined: 17 Jul 2006
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| Posted: May 28, 2009 10:15 am Post subject: |
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| cameraboy wrote: | | ... There was actual real stuff to be upset about with Bush. |
Are you saying that have you have been completely happy with him so far? |
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Neognosis
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| Posted: May 28, 2009 10:21 am Post subject: |
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The fact that he condemned executives for bending rules then turns around and does it himself is hypocritical.
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Well, it's not quite the same thing. For one, he's not taking bailout money. For another, he is traveling to make a public speech as it one of his duties.
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I think there needs to be term or age limits on all politicians and Supreme Court justices. Why was 90 year old Strom Thurmond making decisions that an 18 year old kid has to live with for 60 years
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Absolutely not for supreme court justices. Justices have to be completely insulated from any outside influence.
Politicians, I'm on the fence about. I used to be hard core for term limits, but someone on wakeboarder had some good reasons agaisnt them that made me reconsider, and I'm still mulling it over.
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Are you saying that have you have been completely happy with him so far?
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No. but I am not unhappy with him yet either. The fact that most of the criticism is either making a big deal out of small things (like the insane idea that he is doign the country a disservice by holding events at the white house) or things that are skewed and exaggerated, like the insane idea that obama wants to curtain free speech with the fairnes doctrine. That tells me that he's not done anythign substantially wrong yet. Because his political enemies are workign too hard on these fishing expeditions.
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boardordie
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| Posted: May 28, 2009 10:31 am Post subject: |
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| Nooga678 wrote: | | Are you saying that have you have been completely happy with him so far? |
I look at it like this... when it came time to vote you had 2 choices... a turd and an old turd. It was a sh!tty decision regardless. 
I can't believe the republican party isn't blasting Obama right now for all of the monies given to Chrysler and GM. The money kept the companies going for what, another 3 months? Obama and the rest of the goverment should have kept out of it and let the companies file chapter 11 back 3 months ago. The billions of dollars Obama gave the auto industry could could have been used to help save social security or pay for a night out in Las Vegas or anything useful. It really looks from where I'm sitting that he was paying his supporters (UAW) back for getting him appointed.  |
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Neognosis
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| Posted: May 28, 2009 10:45 am Post subject: |
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It really looks from where I'm sitting that he was paying his supporters (UAW) back for getting him appointed.
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Elected, you mean. hmmm... interesting thoughts.
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goofyboy
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| Posted: May 28, 2009 10:45 am Post subject: |
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UAW will be sitting pretty after all of this and the car companies will be no better off. I hope the bondholders for GM stand strong and take their chances in Bankruptcy court.
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Nooga678
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| Posted: May 28, 2009 10:58 am Post subject: |
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cameraboy, I guess I don't consider all the money being spent and expansion of government a small thing or exaggerated. However, I guess if one supports those things then they would not find any greviances yet.
And just to preimpetively respond: I am not a Republican and didn't agree with it under Bush either. That is not directed at you cameraboy, just in general I get tired of people pointing the finger at the other party when debating politics. It is fine when two people from the two major opposing parties are arguing, but the technique gets carried over into general political arguements. |
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Neognosis
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| Posted: May 28, 2009 11:00 am Post subject: |
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cameraboy, I guess I don't consider all the money being spent and expansion of government a small thing or exaggerated. However, I guess if one supports those things then they would not find any greviances yet.
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I'm simply willing to try Keynesian economic policy because I beleive that the economic situation is bad enough to warrant that.
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Rhawn
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| Posted: May 28, 2009 11:00 am Post subject: |
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If that's what you define as 'shocking', you may want to get out a little more.
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Commodore
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| Posted: May 28, 2009 11:05 am Post subject: |
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| J-Ro wrote: | | FWIW - I am bored today and would probably argue with a tree if there was one in my office. |
Ready......GO!!!
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gswake
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| Posted: May 28, 2009 11:07 am Post subject: |
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haugy, star!
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J-Ro
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Oasis137
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| Posted: May 29, 2009 9:56 am Post subject: |
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edrex, did you read the article? Things in there were bolded, im assuming, to eliminate some bias. The point he was trying to make was eliminate reckless spending because obama said thats what he was going to do. Making a trip to Las Vegas and then putting it on the taxpayers dime by sidetracking and making an "important" speech at a base is the shady business were talking about.
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