WakeMikey's Budget Stereo

WakeMikey · Addict Joined: 29 Mar 2008 Posts: 640 City: Fridley

I am designing a simple, budget stereo system for my 1987 Supra SunSport DD. It will be installed piece by piece throughout this summer.

We are shooting for tower speakers, one sub, one amp. Will use an Equalizer and probably a car CD deck.

I'm looking for advice, sugesstions on ways to save $$$, sugesstions for model numbers of amps or a different sub than below. Also looking for deals/links on the misc parts I do not have scouted out yet, like a wiring harness for the deck, wiring pieces for the amp, etc.

vette74 · Posted: Feb 23, 2009 1:56 pm Post subject:

I used profile amps and love them.

http://www.millionbuy.com/caudio-amp-prf.html

I built my own speaker box and installed under the helm with a 12" kicker ported sub. For the price I spent on the whole thing you cannot beat it.

WakeMikey · Addict Joined: 29 Mar 2008 Posts: 640 City: Fridley

Here's the boat and close up of the factory deck. No idea where to put the new one!

gx205 · Outlaw Joined: 23 May 2007 Posts: 118

What is your budget?, how much are you planning on spending?

I just got done with my complete stereo overhaul, and I saved a few dollars everywhere I could, but with that said, if you are going to have a complete boat stereo plus tower speakers, spend the cash on a wetsounds ws-420 equalizer.

That thing alone will make a hugh difference in your stereo. Not only can you talk to your skiers,surfers,etc., with the microphone. You can also control the tower speakers independently from the boat speakers...PLUS contro; the sound of every song sooooooooo easy.

--cresko-- · Soul Rider Joined: 03 Dec 2006 Posts: 496

Dont mean to rain on your parade, but the kicker sub you have in mind is a POS. If your going to install yourself, its a way better idea to build your own box. Boxes are simple to build, alot of designs on the internet. And really cheap to build too. If you have good skills like fiberglass, and such you can make them really nice. But a simple box is really easy and cheap. You don't have to go with a marine sub. We have a 12inch non-marine in our VLX and its fine, hits really nice. If your really concerned you can go with a non-marine and use a plexiglass cover for your box. You don't have to build a slim box either, take the floorboard off under the dash and take measurments there, you can build a nice box, then put the floor board back on and the sub is hidden. Thats how our VLX is done and the bass hits alot better, and in terms of theft its completely hidden.

Brit Rider · Posted: Feb 24, 2009 4:49 am Post subject:

--cresko--, Have no idea why you'd think that Kicker sub is a POS - I've used them several times with great results.... For the money and simplicity they are hard to beat.

Sounds like you haven't been setting up right or are expecting too much from a 10" sub...

Chattwake · Posted: Feb 24, 2009 5:06 am Post subject:

Hey, I've got two rockford fosgate interior speakers that are new in box - extras from my 07 VLX. If you want them, I'll sell them to you super cheap. Let me look and see what other stereo stuff I may have left over that I could send you for free. I think I have a small crossover that will split an imput signal and run an amp for your highs and an amp for your sub.

If you'll wait, I'm getting all wetsounds interior speakers installed in my 230 and I'll have the 6 factory 08 nautique polk momo's to get rid of cheap.

Chattwake · Posted: Feb 24, 2009 5:09 am Post subject:

As for subs, I've seen a few of the factory enclosures from Nautiques on Ebay for like $60 for the whole thing. That would be cheap and easy to mount.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Correct-Craft-Nautique-Subwoofer-Enclosure_W0QQitemZ270346595009QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item270346595009&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A317%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A0%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50

http://cgi.ebay.com/Correct-Craft-Nautique-2nd-Gen-Subwoofer-Enclosure_W0QQitemZ270346594506QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item270346594506&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A317%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A0%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50

Just find a decent sub to fit and you'd be golden. I'd go with JL Audio or a wetsounds sub.

Commodore · Ladies Man Joined: 20 Jun 2005 Posts: 11636

WakeMikey, mount your stereo on the left console, port side of the boat. But get one with a wired remote, put that near your console. I know you are limited on room, like me, that's what I'm doing.

WakeMikey · Addict Joined: 29 Mar 2008 Posts: 640 City: Fridley

Well my budget is entry level. I want to get the amp for around 100 and the sub+enclosure for about the same. These are really my only missing pieces. The WS420 would be nice but far too expensive. I was figuring to control to boat speakers with the cd deck volume and the tower/sub(master) with the eq.

Cresko I was considering the Kicker enclosed sub, that's why I posted it. I will most likely build my own. I will probably buy something second hand from the board. I don't have a kciboard under the dash, it goes straight up to the open bow storage under the seat. I already have a sac up there so I was thinking a slimmer design would help it squeeze in better. This may or may not happen. I think these is room for a regular box too. Maybe if I have room I should build some kind of kickboard. There's an idea...

02Lightning thanks but I already have interior speakers. I am only running one amp too, so I don't think I would need a crossover other than what is built into the amp, since I will be using two channels bridged for tower and two channels bridged for sub. I do need an amp and single 12" sub w/ enclosure. Smile

Thanks for the good ebay finds I may go with something like that too.

Haughy can you detail what spot you're talking about? Left console port side, but where? On top the 'glovebox storage' near the windshield, after removing the wood trim? Or inside the glovebox storage? Thought about that.

--cresko-- · Soul Rider Joined: 03 Dec 2006 Posts: 496

Personally I would never go with 10". Its why I think you can get way better sound than that kicker for 200 bucks. I would go twelve, but if you really really dont have the space then check out a site like sonic electronix. For 200 bucks you could buy something like a 10" 1600 watt JVC arsenal and all the building materials and wiring for 200 bucks.

I like 12's because I find they hit lows and highs pretty consistently compared to a 10" which will usually just hit all the highs.

Anyways best of luck.

Brit Rider · Posted: Feb 24, 2009 2:58 pm Post subject:

Cresko - But he already said he didn't want to build? I'm a marine audio supplier and I honestly believe the Kicker SKM10 to be a decent bit of kit for the money and ease of use. For $200 sure I could put together something better sounding for my own use (And I'd use a 12"), but I'd not be able to do it for a customer due to the labor costs. I'd guesstimate about 3-4 hours (on and off) to build and finish a box, which just doesn't stack up with what WakeMikey was asking.

If you are hearing highs through your sub then you need to adjust the cross over as the sub should only be getting very low signals in comparison to everything else receiving signal.

gx205 · Outlaw Joined: 23 May 2007 Posts: 118

Do most of you guys have a box, that you have your subwoofer in???

I personally just cut a hole in the passenger side console, right in front of where your legs fit under the dash on that side, and my sub works great there.

I didn't bother building a box for it there, since it's basically in a "box", as the console is only about 2 feet deep there.

I'm running a 10" Polk sub, but I will have to say I installed two pairs of component speakers, and they really help with a lot of the mid bass in songs. That's something you might want to consider WakeMikey.

02lightning, how much are you going to want for your Polk speakers once you replace them with your wetsounds?? My son has a pontoon boat that he's wanting to add some stereo equipment to, so he might be interested in them. Are you sure they are Polk momos, and not DB's??? Only reason I ask, is when I installed my new system, I was told the Polk momos are not weather proof, or marine certified, like the Polk DB's are.

WakeMikey · Addict Joined: 29 Mar 2008 Posts: 640 City: Fridley

Okay guys I am not firmly decided on any of these issues. That is why I made the post - to get recommendations from you. I wanted to hear what you thought about these products and based on your feedback I will alter my decisions.

I am not very experienced in car/marine audio. My only car stereo was a pair of MTX 12"s and they really bumped. But I am limited to space, so I thought for sure the 12' would be too deep. I have never run 10's but I have heard them. You're right they don't bump the low bass as much. I will try and put a single 12" instead since that seems to be the consensus. See? Smile

I am also not going to build a fiberglassed box, but I would be willing to build a simple box which I could custom shape. That would be nice. I will have to see exactly how much room I will need and how much I have. Still planning!!

Appreciate all your feedback.

Vette thanks for the amp link I will probably go there.

How large of amp (approx) will I need to run the KickerKMT6 x2pods and one 12" sub?

vette74 · Posted: Feb 24, 2009 7:03 pm Post subject:

I'll take pics tomorrow of the set up in my boat. You can fit a 12 under the helm with the proper box no problem. The best way to build a box is out of MDF then coat the inside and out with fiberglass resin to keep the wood preserved from water.

Brit Rider · Posted: Feb 25, 2009 4:11 am Post subject:

WakeMikey, We've had good success sending the KMT6's about 75-150 RMS each; although they are 3 speakers per pod they only require 1 input. The amount of power you'll need for the sub will vary depending on which sub you go with...

Something like a Kicker MX700.5 may be a good amp to go for (Ebay has soem steals on these!). Its got a 4 channel output at 75 watts RMS each, plus a 400 watt sub channel. Therefore you could run 2 channels to your tower speakers, 2 channels spread over 4 interior speakers and 1 channel to a sub - all from one box. it'll need 1 run of 4 gauge cable and a 100 amp fuse.

If you are happy to build a box I completely agree that a 12" will be the way to go. It will bump better than a 10".

As a side note, if you aren't too fussed for radio, I'd think about just running an iPod kit into the EQ.... if you cannibalise a charge and play kit off ebay you could just have an ipod sitting in a cup holder - this would save some money and keep things simple. IF not, then how about grabbing a a Fusion IP-500 head unit and ditching the EQ - The headunit has an internal iPod bay, will independently control the volume levels of tower speakers, interiors, sub etc and has a pretty decent level of graphic adjustment. Sounds not bad either
Very Happy

WakeMikey · Addict Joined: 29 Mar 2008 Posts: 640 City: Fridley

Alright! Now we're talkin! Thanks Brit! And Vette! Smile

And everybody of course, this has been very productive for me. I will continue to update this thread as I make purchases/progress. However it will probably take me the whole season, because I am committed first to a new propeller. Smile

Vette or anyone how important is the fiberglass resin coat on a sub box made of mdf? It is not in a location to get very wet, but it would happen from time to time. I suppose the mdf is not good at all with water, huh?

Brit I was going to use a CD deck because I didn't know I could get an amp like that! Smile

Have to look at it more, but sounds good.

The other issue I have with keeping my factory deck is that it has the old school volume knob with a treble/bass ring on the same knob. When you turn the volume you turn the eq too. Smile

So if I use the amp you suggest to run the speakers in the boat too, I could just get rid of my factory deck completely?? That would be sweet.

Brit Rider · Posted: Feb 25, 2009 7:34 am Post subject:

WakeMikey, Great - I smell progress! Cool

- you will need to coat the MDF with plenty of resin... MDF hates water and will die in even a slightly damp situation. Plywood is better in the damp but its more expensive and not as acoustically consistent.

- Multi channel amps are definitely the way forward. There's a good few out there on the market. Remember that you can run more than a speaker from a channel, and equally you can bridge channels together so there are stacks of options on amp choice; eithe r a very powerful 4 channel could work, or a 5 channel, or even a 6-channel could be ideal.. seems like some ebay trawlings gonna be in order to track down a deal!

- I'd ditch the factory deck, it just won't cut it... run everything from an amplified source, that way you'll be able to get sufficiant sound, be able to mess with this sound (to tune it to perfection!) and have control over whats being turned up when.

Here's a quick idea on setup:
Fusion IP-500 headunit/EQ/independant tower and boat volume controller - $400.00 (http://www.fusioncaraudio.com/north-and-south-america/marine-audio-2/stereo-units-15/msip500-56-product.aspx)
Kicker L5 12" square sub - $90 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/kicker-l5-12-dvc-sub_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ72Q3a1205Q7c66Q3a2Q7c65Q3a12Q7c39Q3a1Q7c240Q3a1318Q7c301Q3a0Q7c293Q3a1Q7c294Q3a50QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem290297936974QQitemZ290297936974QQptZCarQ5fSubwoofersQ5fEnclosures)
Materials and epoxy resin for a sub box - $40.00
Kicker 700.5 amp - $220 (http://cgi.ebay.com/KICKER-ZX700-5-CAR-STEREO-700-WATT-5CH-AMPLIFIER-AMP_W0QQitemZ310124450021QQcmdZViewItemQQptZCar_Amplifiers?hash=item310124450021&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1234|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1308|301%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A50)
Wiring and installation gear - $30.
Kicker KMT6 Tower speakers - $200

Total $980

Brit Rider · Posted: Feb 25, 2009 7:39 am Post subject:

Hmm on second thoughts... that price needs to come down some....

Kicker 850.4 amp - 1 channel on the tower, 2 on the interior speakers, 1 on the sub (set the amp to mono on the tower and the sub) - $125.00
http://cgi.ebay.com/Kicker-Amp-850-4_W0QQitemZ180331424660QQcmdZViewItemQQptZCar_Amplifiers?hash=item180331424660&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318|301%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A50

Pioneer deck (spend about $150 bucks)

Clarion EQ - $60.00

Sub, as posted above.

Tower speakers as above.

Any better?

--cresko-- · Soul Rider Joined: 03 Dec 2006 Posts: 496

I second the multi channel. And the amp will be the most costly but is the most important. I'd go four channel, because in most cases it will be more than enough. Like Brit said, 1 channel for the T.S, 1 for the sub, and the other two for the interior. If you want more power from your tower, use a single channel for each T.S. Once you have everything installed, you can kind of fiddle around with the channels and find what you like best.

JeffreyCH · Posted: Feb 25, 2009 8:22 am Post subject:

I'm curious as to why you guys are suggesting running the tower speakers mono from a single channel? Would you then run those parallel or in series? I would've thought that running true stereo out of the tower would sound better?

Okie Boarder · Ladies Man Joined: 03 Mar 2008 Posts: 10056 City: Edmond

WakeMikey, I'm definitely interested in seeing what you do since we essentially have the same boat. I may not be doing much with stereo until next year. My plan is to stick with the Sony deck I have out of my other boat, get a wired remote for it, like haugy suggested (which I may actually try to do this year depending on my budget finishing the repair stuff), install a remote ipod connection, then I'll go with some quality 6.5"'s for inside the boat (probably Wetsounds) and do a sub setup. I've been looking at the Kicker MX700.5 myself. Brent on this board has that amp in his boat with 4 factory Clarion speakers and the Wetsounds 10" sub. The sound is phenomenally loud, clear and the bass hits really good. I'd definitely personally recommend the Kicker amp, whether you go with the 700.5 or the 850.4. I'll probably do Wetsounds for the tower too (once I put a tower on it).

I'm not sure about you, but my boat has a "glove box" on the port side where the stereo was. The unit needs some work as it has cracked and the stereo cut out has some portions broken away. I'm going to have to fashion something because Supra doesn't sell that piece anymore. I thought about even mounting my stereo inside the port side storage compartment since I only need to access it once in a while with the wired remote and all. Still thinking about that one.

Brit Rider · Posted: Feb 25, 2009 2:29 pm Post subject:

JeffreyCH, If you can differentiate mono to stereo sound 80ft behind a boat from 2 speakers that are 2ft apart you will be doing pretty well. Mono won't have any negative impact on sound quality... plus it means you only have to run 1 run of speaker wire up the tower rather than 2... always useful!

Technically you could run them series or parrellel depending on the amp and how much power you have to play with....

JeffreyCH · Posted: Feb 25, 2009 4:09 pm Post subject:

Brit Rider, Yeah that makes sense, I was just thinking about sound quality inside the boat. I only have mounting locations for 1 pair of interior speakers (Infinity 6x9's) I've never run a bridged amp except to power subs, in a bridged tower application would the left and right sounds (certain songs have riffs/vocals that come out of one side or the other) come from both tower speakers?

johnsvt · Criminal Joined: 19 Oct 2006 Posts: 56

WMikey...have you thought about just doing tower speakers this year and interior + sub next year. I personally would waste to much money on a sub you won't be happy with and end up replacing down the road.

johnsvt · Criminal Joined: 19 Oct 2006 Posts: 56

Also look at Audioque subs...made in USA same price as Kicker and better. I put 250 hours and 1200 watts(an honest 1200) on a 12" from audioque.

Brit Rider · Posted: Feb 26, 2009 3:31 am Post subject:

JeffreyCH, yup, both speaker would be the same. but unless you are sitting in between 2 speakers you're going to struggle to notice. Ideally in boat speakers will want to be stereo (where it will make a difference), but on the tower it just won't matter Cool

JeffreyCH · Posted: Feb 26, 2009 5:28 am Post subject:

Brit Rider, Thanks for the info Smile

rideit · Criminal Joined: 14 Aug 2006 Posts: 50

WMikey,
the price on the kicker tower pods on cartronixplus is that for the 2 pods or just one pod?
I'm looking for some tower speakers but don't want to brake the bank... I wont use them that much due to narrow river riding and house all up and down the river, don't want to piss anyone off more then I already do with the wake!!! so I wont be blasting the tower speaker in housing area's!!! Mad

WakeMikey · Addict Joined: 29 Mar 2008 Posts: 640 City: Fridley

Hey guys thanks again for continueing to contribute! At work today so not TOO much research time, but I'll be looking at those amps.

-Do you really think that 75 wats per tower pod would be strong enough if I went with the 5 channel amp?

johnsvt I think your idea is very reasonable and that may very well be what I do.

To clarify, I have already replaced all four of my 6.5" interior speakers. Went with Infinitys but no model number right now sorry. So that is done. I would imagine major purchases now are the tower speakers and amp, and maybe the Blue Sea battery relay.

Rideit, yes the cartronixplus price is for two speaker pods. Smile

Lowest price I have found. I called them and they expect the 09 models to be in in less than a month. Hope they're the same price! Even for $250 it's a deal.

WakeMikey · Addict Joined: 29 Mar 2008 Posts: 640 City: Fridley

rideit the KickerKMT6 is really the way to go they are very popular around these message boards and everyone says they are great performance for the price. The guy at Cartronixplus told me to just keep checking the website and they will post as soon as they get them. I may call in another week just to see if there is any update. I may also get an EQ unit from them because the price is right...

*Does anyone know the inside scoop on Equalizers under $150 ONLY?

Brit Rider · Posted: Feb 26, 2009 7:48 pm Post subject:

WakeMikey, We have run the KMT6 on 75W RMS with no issues at all... you have to remember that doubling the watts doesn't translate to double the sound output (Sound pressure level). 75 watts RMS is plenty... if you can afford to I'd of course suggest going towards 150 RMS each, but it's not going to make or break the stereo Smile

Something else to bear in mind is this... if you use 2 gauge cabling rather then than the 4 gauge as recommended by Kicker, you can add another amp later without totally re-wiring: cheaper in the long run). so in a years time when you have recovered from this financial outlay, you could add a dedicated tower amp (say a 150RMS x 2 channel), and run the in boat speakers all from the 700.5. This really would be a killer setup Cool

What are your thoughts regarding the head unit and EQ versus the all-in-one Fusion unit?

rideit · Criminal Joined: 14 Aug 2006 Posts: 50

I think I'm going to order a pair up today!!!
What would be some good amp options to go with these speakers?
I would like an amp that has a volume control dial on it, so I can control the sound level of the tower speakers from the drive's seat.. I know they make amps with the dial control for the sub's but how about the high pass on a amp?

WakeMikey · Addict Joined: 29 Mar 2008 Posts: 640 City: Fridley

Sorry rideit they are backordered right now Smile

Month or less see my post above

rideit · Criminal Joined: 14 Aug 2006 Posts: 50

Yeah I know WMikey,
I might order them from Hifisoundconnection.com They are little bit more money, but they are an Authorized dealer for Kicker.. I don't know if that matters or not.