What to put in Tower Cans?

Moon · Newbie Joined: 29 Oct 2008 Posts: 44 City: Prosser

I bought a boat in august that already had 4 speaker cans with MB speakers in them. They don't sound the greatest and you can barely hear them while boarding. For now, I'd like to keep the Cans and add better speakers that will allow a rider to hear the tunes. Do I have any options, and if so what are they? I've been searching on this subject quite a bit, but really haven't found any answers. To tell you the truth, I wish I could load my cans up with the WS Pro 60s but I'm pretty sure that's not an option (unless I took the 60s out of their can and installed them in mine).

Any suggestions would be great,

Moon

NKCrider · Posted: Nov 03, 2008 6:17 pm Post subject:

most everyone is going to tell you wetsounds. but we used 6.5 in polk audios, i can hear them just fine without an amp, but we are putting one in this winter anyway cuz it was free

jonyb · Addict Joined: 06 Oct 2007 Posts: 844 City: Paducah

Wet Sounds WS-650's dropped in the cans. You can get them for around $199/pair and they're much better than the standard car audio speaker.

NKCrider · Posted: Nov 03, 2008 8:59 pm Post subject:

yea, but some peoplr may not want to throw a $100/pair for speakers

TnR6Rida · Posted: Nov 03, 2008 9:22 pm Post subject:

Wetsounds if you can afford them of course, but if your on a budget get the Polk audios like NKCrider said.

hco · Posted: Nov 04, 2008 3:37 pm Post subject:

If you want to actually hear them while riding, then you should get the bullet 6.5" that you can put in just about any can. I am not sure what your amp setup is, but I can hear my 2 MB quart can's when I am riding as long as it is not a windy day.

TnR6Rida · Posted: Nov 04, 2008 3:47 pm Post subject:

I can hear my polks loud and clear.

NKCrider · Posted: Nov 05, 2008 11:41 am Post subject:

big_steve, me too behind a 1980 SN without an amp

hco · Posted: Nov 05, 2008 11:41 am Post subject:

NKC- You run yours off of your headunit?

NKCrider · Posted: Nov 05, 2008 12:27 pm Post subject:

hco, yeah i guess. they are hooked up to the radio which is hooked up to the secondary battery

hco · Posted: Nov 05, 2008 12:31 pm Post subject:

Is your boat super silenced or something, or do you ride like 55' behind the boat? That seems absurd that non-horn polks can be heard while boarding when they only have like 50 watts max going to them.

NKCrider · Posted: Nov 05, 2008 12:39 pm Post subject:

hco, stock exhuast for all i know,doghouse in the middle of the boat. i ride at around 70ft. all i kow is that i can hear them while riding.
these are the speakers. i have these speakers and cans
http://www.aerialwakeboarding.com/PhotoDetails.asp?ShowDesc=N&PhotoNumber=7&ProductCode=BT-TWBLTSPP

TnR6Rida · Posted: Nov 05, 2008 1:24 pm Post subject:

Those are the same speakers I have, db series i think.. Started off with only two running off the cd player. I could hear those fine when I was riding. I can across a good deal on 2 more so I bought them and have them hooked up to a JL amp, and they sound amazing. I ride at 65 feet, and no my boat is not really that quiet. Polk audio makes some really good quality speakers.

hco · Posted: Nov 05, 2008 1:49 pm Post subject:

Hm, so would you suggest picking up a pair of polks on ebay before I try kicker kmt6 tower speakers? The mb quarts I have right now are the ones that they have in the titans.

TnR6Rida · Posted: Nov 05, 2008 1:59 pm Post subject:

I had kickers to before my polks. Both are very good, but I like the polks better. Go with whatever you want. Both are good choices.

NKCrider · Posted: Nov 05, 2008 3:12 pm Post subject:

big_steve, yeah, i got those 2 dual cans and 4 speakers and mounting hardware for $327 off ebay brand new in box.
hco, if your on a budget go with polk

hco · Posted: Nov 05, 2008 4:16 pm Post subject:

The thing is I have been thinking about the kicker KMT6 Tower speakers (with the horn). I am sure I could pick up some polk momos (I am assuming thats what you have?) for like 40$ for a pair on ebay, which if it is actually that much louder than the MB quarts I will consider since it will save me about 100$ or so.

Moon · Newbie Joined: 29 Oct 2008 Posts: 44 City: Prosser

When I saw people suggest the Polk's, I too was wondering which, momos or dbs? I've heard good things about the brand but at the same time thought about the Kicker KMT6 if I decided to remove my 4 cans.

Moon

NKCrider · Posted: Nov 06, 2008 12:29 pm Post subject:

Moon, mine are DBS series

TnR6Rida · Posted: Nov 06, 2008 5:09 pm Post subject:

dbs here as well.

hco · Posted: Nov 06, 2008 6:18 pm Post subject:

Are the DBS actually better speakers than the Momos?

Moon · Newbie Joined: 29 Oct 2008 Posts: 44 City: Prosser

Was looking online at the Polk db651 to put in my speaker cans, and found them on circuitcity.com for $99 for the first pair and then 50% off the second pair. As of right now, I've got one amp running my 4 MB Q tower speakers and my sub. I'm not sure of the watts but I know I need anther one since it seems to cut out for around 45 minutes after it has been on for several hours. I'm pretty sure my current amp can handle the sub, but what should I look for when purchasing anther amp for the tower speakers?
Moon

hco · Posted: Nov 08, 2008 3:46 pm Post subject:

A high quality two channel amplifier with a legitimate RMS based off of actually volts getting to the amp off your your pre-outs on the head unit.

Brit Rider · Posted: Nov 09, 2008 11:23 am Post subject:

Moon, Before you look into more speakers, I'd strongly suggest re-evaluating your amp choice and having things checked out by someone who knows what they're looking at.

I've ridden behind many boats with 4 MB Quarts in cans... and used to sell this setup without any issues... it was also a setup widely used by several manufacturers for quite a few years. I know it can work just fine so it'd seems like your amp may not be upto the task or badly setup.

You want to be sending around 60 or so Watts RMS of high quality signal to each speaker. Something like the Kicker MX350.4 would do this well, or another similarly priced amp. Avoid cheaper amps as they aren't worth the hassle in my experience and will not perform well when pushed to higher volumes (like we tend to do in boats)...

It could be worth speaking with your local stereo shop as there's absolutely no point in upgrading your speakers without a decent signal going to them. The Wet Sounds 6.5's for example are awesome, really brilliant speakers, but they have a heavy duty cone and thus won't necessarily provide any more sound than what you have now. IN fact... the MB Quarts you have now are likely to be louder as I'm pretty sure they are an easier speaker to drive for a given power.

Once this issue is addressed, if you still want to upgrade speakers I'd look closely at the Kicker KMT6 units - They are a hell of a lot of bang-for-the-buck (The best for the money in my opinion). But equally, you won't go far wrong with 2 pair of the Wetsounds 6.5" or the Kicker KM620's. If you did decide it was worth spending the money the Wetsounds Pro 80's sound better and louder than you'd ever think possible - Tim did a great job with those speakers and they are priced well for what they are; though equally... its a lot of money to spend if you're on a budget.

Righty.... sorry to go on for so long - Essay over! Laughing

Moon · Newbie Joined: 29 Oct 2008 Posts: 44 City: Prosser

Brit Rider, thanks for the sound advice. Since our season is over, I've been planning on take my boat to a stereo shop just to see what they say before buying anything. I guess I'm just hoping I don't get taken for a ride since I really know nothing about the whole audio thing.

Moon

Brit Rider · Posted: Nov 10, 2008 5:41 am Post subject:

Moon, Completely see your point.

Tell you what - how about you take a pic of your amp and give us all the details listed on the outside - those of us on here that are used to tower audio will quickly be able to tell you if its upto the job. Also, let us know what head unit you have and grab a quick snap of the wiring running out of that into your amp.

There should be some dials and buttons on your amp - take a pic of those too and we should be able to guide you relatively well - or at least give some pointers on how to make the most of what you have, or what's up with the setup etc etc.

If you do need to purchase anything we can throw up some product ideas and you can find the best deal over the net or head to your stereo shop armed with the info you need to instruct them on what you want doing/run the ideas by them.

Hope that helps

hco · Posted: Nov 10, 2008 8:00 am Post subject:

Moon, I have a 300.2 amp going to two MB quarts right now, and on a day with no wind I can definitely hear it behind the boat, and even pretty clearly. However, I do want a bit more noise.

Does anyone know if the Kicker KMT6 speakers come in pairs? Is it like a pair of pro 485's like from wetsounds? Or is it just one of the pods/boxes (with two speakers and the onehorn?)?

Brit Rider · Posted: Nov 10, 2008 9:29 am Post subject:

hco, They come as a pair. So 6 speakers total. 4 mids, 2 tweets Cool

I honestly think they are too cheap... I just don't get why they priced them so budget.

hco · Posted: Nov 10, 2008 9:43 am Post subject:

If anyone wants to split the cost of a pair I would be very interested, I do not have the money to re-power for the pair of them, but my one 300.2 would definitely be able to power just one (I hope, and hopefully it would also be louder than my current two MB quarts?).

Brit- they also have a horn right, and that is pretty much the main reason why they are louder than regular tower speakers?

I believe that their prices are so cheap because an ABS molded plastic box is much cheaper to produce than metal speaker cans.

Brit Rider · Posted: Nov 10, 2008 10:01 am Post subject:

hco, Its not a horn in the sense that Wetsounds have. Its tweeter, with a horn to direct the sound. They actually sound really great though and provide alot of midbass which is well above that of what you'd expect. The other cool thing is just how directional the sound is - They don't blast the people in the boat, just whatever is directly behind them.

We have run them with only 60w RMS per speaker and still been able to hear them just fine on several customer boats. We generally use the Kicker MX350.4 which is 60w RMS x 4 channels. generally we bridge this but customers who want only one amp and are on a budget have had us hook up 2 interior speakers at 60w each, then the two tower enclosures at 60w each. Its worked very well.

If going with this you will want to ensure the amps are getting a decent signal from the head unit (line driver could be required if you're only putting out a couple volts).

is the 300.2 amp you speak of a JL 300.2 unit? If so its going to be more than enough.

hco · Posted: Nov 10, 2008 12:05 pm Post subject:

Amplifiers are powered by a kenwood, (http://www.kenwoodusa.com/Car_Entertainment/In-Dash_CD_n_DVD_Receivers/1-DIN_CD_Receiver/KDC-MP438U)

Listed as 2.5 v pre-outs which isnt bad at all.

I always forget the name of the 300.2. I think it is an older kicker amp, but I forget, I know it isn't some junk like sony, but I also know it's definitely not high-end like JL, zapco, etc... I think at 4 ohms it was something like 95 watts RMS x2.

Moon · Newbie Joined: 29 Oct 2008 Posts: 44 City: Prosser

Brit Rider, tomorrow I have the day off (Veteran's Day) so I'll get some pictures. My head unit is the Clarion M455 and I believe my equalizer is the Clarion EQS 744. My amp is located in the compartment behind the spotter seat. I also have a JL sub (not sure which one) and now that I really think about it, I'm only running 3 MB Q's and some other brand of speaker in the forth can. Tomorrow we'll find out what the other one is. Thanks for the help.

Moon

Brit Rider · Posted: Nov 10, 2008 1:46 pm Post subject:

hco, If its an older Kicker do not underestimate it - The older Kicker amps are legendary... I'd actually rate an older Kicker above JL. Price isn't always everything Wink

2.5V could do with being higher - you would benefit from a line driver in this application. 4v would be much better but have a hunt on some specs (once you cna confirm what the amp is) to see what the max input voltage your amp can take it - you want to be close to this ideally. As a rule of thumb - The higher the voltage, the lower the distortion.

Again, 95w RMS is fine and will provide plenty of sound to hear behind the boat from the MKT6's, but, sure, you could use more power
Very Happy

Moon, Great - I'm guessing this is a few years old as the M455 has now been replaced but its still a fine CD head unit. Having an EQ is a massive plus point generally so you have a good base with which to work. Lets see the pics! Cool

hco · Posted: Nov 10, 2008 1:54 pm Post subject:

I am a stereo idiot, so I will look into line drivers, as well as finding out how hard I can push my two current amps, I want to get a bit more power from them, but I never bothered to tune them over the summer, I am sure I can turn up the gains a bit more maybe.

Brit Rider · Posted: Nov 12, 2008 6:42 am Post subject:

hco, Also, remember to minimise your bass - this will help with topping out the volume as bass is the major leader to distortion.

Boost your mids and highs, cut your bass - it will sound just as good 80ft back but louder Cool