Its almost not worth getting pissed anymore... _________________ You know you own someone when you can agitate them enough to quote you in their signature.
The tinfoil hats arent looking so looney anymore...Why isnt the vast majority outraged..We have bills flying through without people reading them..we are spending trillions with no accounting...exactly what the HECK is it going to take to make people wake up! _________________ You know you own someone when you can agitate them enough to quote you in their signature.
So wait, DeMint clearly stages this attempt at adding a piece of legislation to an appropriations bill (something that is not allowed), gets shot down, then rebuffs with the fact that other items are also in violation in the bill, thus exposing the hypocrisy of the Senate president for allowing those items but not his item?
Sounds like just another hypocrisy filled day in Washington. DeMint hit his target with this one. The intended demographic is up in arms. Bullseye.
Acting like this is some coup for the Ron Paul types is disingenuous though. DeMint was going nowhere with this from the start, and he knew it.
Can you say "political theater"? _________________
So wait, DeMint clearly stages this attempt at adding a piece of legislation to an appropriations bill (something that is not allowed), gets shot down, then rebuffs with the fact that other items are also in violation in the bill, thus exposing the hypocrisy of the Senate president for allowing those items but not his item?
Sounds like just another hypocrisy filled day in Washington. DeMint hit his target with this one. The intended demographic is up in arms. Bullseye.
Acting like this is some coup for the Ron Paul types is disingenuous though. DeMint was going nowhere with this from the start, and he knew it.
Can you say "political theater"?
Regardless of the political process an audit of the Federal Reserve NEEDS to happen...You would think that EVERYONE would want this to move forward... _________________ You know you own someone when you can agitate them enough to quote you in their signature.
joebananas, Tbonez, did you notice I made no commentary on the validity or need for a proper accounting of the Federal Reserve's books?
It's a non-partisan issue: both sides should want this.
I was just stating how disingenuous the whole thing was. As is the title of this thread and the title of that article. The Dems didn't block chit - this was a non-starter from the get-go and complete political theater. _________________
Why would a politician take a key issue infront of the Senate President knowing that was going to get shot down so he/she could point the finger at the other side of the isle completely blaming them?
Oh wait, this is Washington
The audit needs to happen, but I think Gingermex has a very valid point here.
Instead this could have been, and probably will be done the right way and it should be a non-issue. _________________
Quote:
You don't meet many old vegans. It's mostly young priviliged kids trying to figure out where they stand in the world.
joebananas, Tbonez, did you notice I made no commentary on the validity or need for a proper accounting of the Federal Reserve's books?
It's a non-partisan issue: both sides should want this.
I was just stating how disingenuous the whole thing was. As is the title of this thread and the title of that article. The Dems didn't block chit - this was a non-starter from the get-go and complete political theater.
Honestly I appreciate your sentiments that the Fed should be audited...The Dems, however, did block it if you watched it carefully. They have MULTIPLE violations of the same thing. If they dont follow the rules and they feel its valid why not let it go through just like they ramroded their agenda through doing the SAME THING. Both parties should respect the SAME rules..In actuality this is a RAT standing up for the machine that created him...Nothing more ...nothing less... _________________ You know you own someone when you can agitate them enough to quote you in their signature.
I agree fully that both parties should be held accountable for violations of the rules.
But
DeMint used a "hotbutton" issue to make his case so his supporters would rally and pull out the ever so fun hypocrite card. I'm no follower of DeMints career, but my guess is like all politicians, he should grab a mirror before playing that card... _________________
Posted: Jul 09, 2009 9:51 pm Post subject: A friend asked me to comment on this thread, so...
OK, so a friend of mine said this was "right up my alley" and wanted to see how nuts I could go on a rant, so I would like to add something to this post.
First, and foremost, the very first post here is "Democrats block audit of the Fed". This is the classic "if only Republicans were in power this wouldn't have happened" - sure it would have. Let me remind all of you, we had a Republican president that lied us right into a war in Iraq, and faced absolutely no consequences. This last president formed an energy policy with Enron in secret talks and even today we don't know what they discussed. It was this last president that started the bailouts with Goldman Sachs ex CEO turned Treasury Secretary Hank Paulson. Bush was elected to end nation building, reduce Federal Government, bring integrity to the White House, and reduce Federal spending. The result was to start nation building in 2 nations, increase the Federal government by 30%, I'm not going to bring up integrity, and to add 3 trillion dollars of debt to the national debt all under a Republican legislature.
Second, although a few of you might feel "angry" the vast majority of this country is just simply mind numbingly stupid. If you ask a typical person "name one bill that either Obama or McCain voted on", you wouldn't get an answer, although both were in the senate and both were running for president. I can name a few bills they voted on together - they both voted for the Patriot Act, they both voted for multiple expenditures to pay for the Iraq War, and they both voted for the "Emergency Economic Stabilization Act" - what is known as bailout #1. Remember that idiots aren't just idiots, they are idiots that vote, and they will vote for two "choices" which are the same in every important aspect (foreign policy, domestic economic laws, staying out of certain areas like the Fed, etc) while the majority of the country is at each others throats about gay marriage, flag burning, school prayer, abortion, and other trivial crap that really doesn't matter when 2 trillion dollars has been stolen from you, and you've been put on the hook for it. And you know, that's not going to be paid back. You know the country is bankrupt. Get real.
Anyhow, you will get angry, and that's all you will do, if you even manage to do that which most of you won't. I'm beyond getting angry anymore, it's just amusement.
We have a lying cheating corrupt government because we have an uneducated lazy voting public, that can't be bothered to do the most BASIC research before they cast a vote. This country has the government it deserves, a horrible one. You're not change it. This country is more concerned with a pedophile dying at age 50 as "a horrible tragedy" than 2 trillion dollars being stolen from themselves. I live in a country of total morons.
Right now, sitting in front of you, is the most powerful research tool ever created by mankind. In the mid 1990s, I was in Boulder Colorado working for CableLabs in order to help design a "cable modem" - this device was going to bring high speed internet to the masses, and finally, people would be able to talk to other people from Iran, in India, in Iraq, in Lebanon, in Africa, anywhere. Culture would dissolve, people would discover that they have no conflict with other people in other nations, that it's actually their governments that have the problems with each other, and you're all played for sucker pawns. That was what I stupidly believed 10 years ago, as I worked my ass off to "make the world a better place".
My work is predominately used to download pornography, see things like "assmilk" and to send spam. Now I can appreciate just how Philo Farnsworth felt now. He had a mental breakdown. I can see why.
In closing, your country won't change because none of you are actually willing to do anything to change it. You're a slave, your neighbor's are slaves, that's the system you're in, that's the system you'll stay in.
When Ron Paul ran for president, a man with an impeccable record of integrity doing PRECISELY what the Republican voters have said they wanted for the last 30 years, he was labeled nuts, then written off. I gave him $2300 to win the presidency. All I can say is, you got what you all deserve, and I tried - I leave you all to lie in the grave you collectively have dug for the nation. Good luck.
Oh, and the media controls everything you know. Who owns Reuters? Who owns AP? Was the media right about the dot.com boom? Dow 30,000 - how did all the media get the WMD claims wrong about Iraq, when Scott Ritter, the ex marine, life long Republican, and UN weapons inspector for Iraq claim before the war Bush was lying? Was the media right about the housing bubble in 2005? You're manipulated, and you will continue to be that way. We have 24 hours 7 days a week of propaganda, and it runs your life. It was this organization that determines who you vote for, what "issues" are important, and what you think and that's the way it's going to stay, until you're dead, and long after you're dead an forgotten.
Do you go by Richard or Dick? I'm guessing Dick. So Dick, if you spent half the time it took you to write that diatribe you might realize that many people in here echo the same sentiments.
Most in here are fairly well educated on issues, and actually do a bir of homework regarding said issues. While there are some of us that disagree with one another, ultimately our conversations are fairly healthy debates.
Maybe "you" should spend some time here before you come in and start insulting the constituents.
So welcome to the forums....Dick. _________________
Quote:
You don't meet many old vegans. It's mostly young priviliged kids trying to figure out where they stand in the world.
Do you go by Richard or Dick? I'm guessing Dick. So Dick, if you spent half the time it took you to write that diatribe you might realize that many people in here echo the same sentiments.
Most in here are fairly well educated on issues, and actually do a bir of homework regarding said issues. While there are some of us that disagree with one another, ultimately our conversations are fairly healthy debates.
Maybe "you" should spend some time here before you come in and start insulting the constituents.
So welcome to the forums....Dick.
You can call me Asswipe Dumass if you like, I don't really mind. I am using my real name though. Quite a funny set of parents, never got a straight answer from them as to why they named me after genitalia.
My point is that nothing is going to be done, except talk. That's the national pastime, complain a little bit, then re-elect 95% of the people you all claim to hate. The USSR had a higher turn over in the politburo than this nation does.
But even when there is turn over... This country moaned and complained about the Iraq War - that is, until Barak Obama got elected. It was just another "issue". I mean, in 2006, the Democrats were elected to end it, and they didn't, and then Obama was elected to end it, and of *course* he didn't - not that anybody checked his voting record. You see many people upset about that "issue" now?
You all forget about the war there?
This entire country is arguing about trivial junk like national health care, and the cap trade, when it just doesn't matter. When they aren't arguing about that, it's about the evil godless liberals" and the "stupid Republicans". What matters, is that 2 trillion dollars has been stolen from you. That's a lot of money. If you convert that into gold, at present market value, that's all the gold that's ever been mined in all of history - for a "bailout". It's just the largest theft in history. Audit the Fed? They have an unlimited amount of money to play with, they can buy anybody and do anything at this point.
Now, I was asked to rant by a friend, so here I am ranting. I won't keep it up for long, just pointing out a few things that have become obvious to me.
Like:
I remember in 2001, on 9/11 after the second plane hit, and the "media" concluded it was done by radical Islamic nutcases, expecting a nice long national discussion on Operation Ajax - which was the CIA operation in 1953 that was engineered to overthrow the democracy in Iran in order to steal oil - the document on the operation was declassified with the Freedom of Information Act and it's online. That CIA coup, created the Iranian Revolution, which in 1979 was successful in throwing out the US imperialism there, and it was copied everywhere. The US even used it to their own advantage with the mujahideen in Afghanistan to push out the Soviets and when that was done, the same people demanded the US get out of their land. In Saudi Arabia for one, where the US alone keeps the Sa'ud family in power - it's dictatorship which is as brutal as Saddam Hussein ever was.
Of course, that discussion never happened.
How many of you actually READ binLaden's writings and demands? I have, did you know we're "giving in to terrorism" by meeting some of his demands? Liberal CNN and Republican Fox don't bring that up, do they? It's just such a freaking joke.
But Ron Paul brought up Operation Ajax in a debate, on national television, explaining what it was. Giuliani accused him of "blaming Amerika first" to cheers from the audience. I couldn't believe it, Paul brought up a clear example of the US overthrowing a middle eastern democracy when Republicans were defending the Iraq war as "bringing dumbocracy to them sandniggers" and the reaction was "yer blamin' Amerika first".
So - with these "people" (?) voting, do you really think you have a chance of changing anything? Arguing is just a catharsis for you, nothing more.
Here's the system you're in, exploit it, because you're not going to change it. You can't change minds, people are stupid, accept it. People need to be educated, and they are too lazy to be educated, they see no worth in being educated. Well, suffering is said to be a good teacher - people are about to be educated very very well. You know that is coming - now how do you take advantage of that situation? That's all that is useful to discuss.
welcome to the forums man. I hope you stick around.
Why? I've just scared everybody away.
The simple hard and cold truth is, this government isn't going to reform without violence, and to be perfectly and entirely honest, I'm not willing to resort to violence because there is no personal gain in it for me. You won't either. When desperation comes then people will do crazy things. That's all our government cares about preventing - widespread desperation.
An army of psychologists planned this out. It's bad enough that we'll complain about it, but not so bad we'll actually do something about it. If you know who Edward Bernays is, that's when this all started. He was the father of Public Relations inventing the term, he was the architect for convincing the US public to go to Guatemala to overthrow their democracy (the excuse was communism, the truth was to prevent nationalization of farms from the United Fruit Company - no kidding!) and he was the nephew of Sigmund Freud. He has been one heck of a destructive force in this country, and he was a completely immoral scumbag.
And if any of you think I'm just some paranoid lunatic talking crap, I suggest you all make use of the Internet for it's intended use - research. We've had a completely criminal government for 1/2 decade.
he simple hard and cold truth is, this government isn't going to reform without violence
That's sad. Too bad we couldn't come up with a way for people to vote other people into and out of government. _________________ I walk 47 miles of barb wire, I got a cobra snake for a necktie, a brand new house up on the road side, and it's made out of rattlesnake hide
he simple hard and cold truth is, this government isn't going to reform without violence
That's sad. Too bad we couldn't come up with a way for people to vote other people into and out of government.
I suppose at one point we did, when you could trust the public to actually ensure at least a possibility of a free election.
Consider that in 2000, George W. Bush narrowly won (?) the election from Gore and that Neocon piece of crap, Lieberman.
Now, in 2004, after it became clear there were no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, after it was clear that binLaden was allowed to escape, after the enormously unpopular Patriot Act was passed into law, Bush won re-election again, after about 2 trillion dollars was added to the national debt and after a 30% growth in Federal government, and this time won the popular vote, again narrowly.
This would mean that all the Republicans that wanted small government, the end of nation building, and a reduced deficit all voted to re-elect him again, and not only that, some Democratic voters voted for him in 2004 that voted against him in 2000.
Not that anything would have changed with Kerry and Biden anyhow though.
What's sad, is you believe what you're told is going on. What's sad is you don't talk to enough people in real life to identify that a lot of people were quite surprised to see Bush re-elected. I know several Republicans that sat out in 2004, and I don't know a single Democrat that switched sides in 2004. It's obvious to me what happened, but it's because I talk to enough people on both sides that I can see what happened, where most of this country is sitting in front of a television, believing all the crap that comes out of it.
Like "green shoots...".
I used to be shocked that people still paid attention to television "news" or anything reported on it. Not anymore, people are hopeless. They were wrong on the dot.com bubble sustainability, about the weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, about the housing bubble - well, not wrong, they just lie about it. But it's hopeless to discuss this. You think your average citizen in the USSR in 1980 thought Pravda was a pack of lies? No, only the "crazies" thought it was a pack of lies.
Posted: Jul 11, 2009 12:17 pm Post subject: CHANGE
god i hate the government... people are so stupid...
Although this stuff does piss me off and its dems that are doing it... i cant get angry because republicans had the opportunity holding all three branches in 2002? i think it was 2002... when they held majority in house, senate, and held exec branch... taxes going down right? nope... Bush and all of those morons raise taxes by one of the biggest margins in history... that's exactly what these people are! IDIOTS! and they are taking money from us and giving it to special interest groups...
I know Bush blew it... but it makes me so angry that people are pro Obama and HAVE NO IDEA WHAT HE IS DOING WITH OUR MONEY... Just as Bush did with Iraq, Obama is lying through his teeth and news media is convincing us that he is the second coming of christ... people are happy about the lies... at least with bush people recognized what was going on and they were pissed about it...
i just want to go w*keb**rding... but the gov keeps taking all of my money for b**t gas and w*keb**rding toys...
Thanks for enlightening some of us Richard and Tbonez
Posted: Jul 11, 2009 1:01 pm Post subject: Re: CHANGE
jryoung wrote:
Lotz wrote:
Bush and all of those morons raise taxes by one of the biggest margins in history
Please explain. I thought the American Jobs Creation Act of 2004 was one of the biggest tax cuts in history, I guess I'm confused.
And what exactly is it the Dems are doing that the Repubs aren't? I think you miss read Richards posts.
Republicrat democran, it's a one part system.
Ok, following your "logic" - a pay raise is when you go into unsecured credit card debt, to buy a bunch of crap you can't afford. Easy to cut taxes if you do it through deficit spending.
engh, who cares. It's all pointless to discuss it. The next bubble is in Treasury bonds, then finally, creditors come in to collect, and the country will be "duuuuh.. what happened? duuuuuh!"
Americans absolutely deserve the future they are going to get, and if there is an Illuminati, hell, I side with them at this point. No wonder they despise humanity, it's hard not to. I mean, if this group exists, they have to be surprised themselves at just how much crap people will put up with, as long as somebody like Rush Limbaugh or Jon Stewart can shoot their mouths off a bit. You can criticize anything you like, because you will never do anything about it. They couldn't care less, you're content enough, and they know it.
I suppose at one point we did, when you could trust the public to actually ensure at least a possibility of a free election.
Consider that in 2000, George W. Bush narrowly won (?) the election from Gore and that Neocon piece of crap, Lieberman.
He only lost the popular election, which, as you know, is not how we elect the president.
Quote:
Now, in 2004, after it became clear there were no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, after it was clear that binLaden was allowed to escape, after the enormously unpopular Patriot Act was passed into law, Bush won re-election again, after about 2 trillion dollars was added to the national debt and after a 30% growth in Federal government, and this time won the popular vote, again narrowly.
This would mean that all the Republicans that wanted small government, the end of nation building, and a reduced deficit all voted to re-elect him again, and not only that, some Democratic voters voted for him in 2004 that voted against him in 2000.
Yes. And I believe that. Because it is true and it happened. If you were around on this board back in 2004, you would have seen for yourself that Bush was still very popular. I'm sorry you don't like it, I didn't like it either, but that's how it goes.
Quote:
What's sad, is you believe what you're told is going on. What's sad is you don't talk to enough people in real life to identify that a lot of people were quite surprised to see Bush re-elected. I know several Republicans that sat out in 2004, and I don't know a single Democrat that switched sides in 2004. It's obvious to me what happene
No, what's sad is that you seem to be another whack job that thinks they have an accurate view of what the entire country thinks because you talked to a bunch of people you know.
Quote:
i just want to go w*keb**rding... but the gov keeps taking all of my money for b**t gas and w*keb**rding toys...
No, gas is so expensive because of all the cheap siht made in china that you have been buying. the irony is that your statements would indicate that you are exactly the type of person that lets this happen.. you can't, or won't, think past your own pocket. Go fill your 40 gallon wakeboard boat with gas and buy another chinese made toy, then come back here and cry about how bad the government is making things for you. _________________ I walk 47 miles of barb wire, I got a cobra snake for a necktie, a brand new house up on the road side, and it's made out of rattlesnake hide
Posted: Jul 11, 2009 1:22 pm Post subject: Re: CHANGE
RichardWicks wrote:
Ok, following your "logic" - a pay raise is when you go into unsecured credit card debt, to buy a bunch of crap you can't afford. Easy to cut taxes if you do it through deficit spending.
Not sure what logic you are referring to, I wasn't implying anything more than I wrote. I was simply asking a question to Lotz about the biggest tax hikes in history created by the Bush administration, and what act/law that was. _________________
Quote:
You don't meet many old vegans. It's mostly young priviliged kids trying to figure out where they stand in the world.
Richard just hit the bulls eye on what i was trying to say...
I was getting frustrated and mistyped. They increased gov spending and started/funded many unnecessary programs. The tax cuts were sweet (even though I didn't see any of the money), but they borrowed money to make them and that will hurt us in the long run (it would have been interesting to see how much national debt had we accumulated if we hadn't gone to the Iraq war... seeing as a major portion of that spending causing their deficit was to fund it...).
I get super frustrated listening to some of the things these politicians tell us what they HAVE to do or the economy is going to crash or we're going into the next great depression. I just finished a 4 year degree in econ (and don't get me wrong, I know there's a lot I don't know) but I feel like a lot of these politicians forget some of the most basic theories and trends as to how our economy works.
I swear I'm going to find a way to get a consistent monthly cash flow and just w*keb**rd the rest of my life..
jryoung It is one and the same system.. and until someone radically CHANGEs that system it will stay the same.
And for all you people who are going to tell me the FACE we just elected is the change we needed. You better come with some cold hard facts to support your case because that fool is screwing us in the long run. And those "promises" he made... oh god im getting angry again...
I just finished a 4 year degree in econ (and don't get me wrong, I know there's a lot I don't know) but I feel like a lot of these politicians forget some of the most basic theories and trends as to how our economy works.
I respect that, and won't ever argue economics with you unless I educate myself, which I have not.
However, it's not just politicians that make these decisions alone. I'm sure you must have learned about keynesian economics during your education. An awful lot of the countries economists believe that Keynesian economics, though untested in a time of peace, are our best shot at working.
So, while I won't discuss economics with you, as you are no doubt far more educated in that arena than I, how can you disregard the opinions of doctorates of economics with life long work in the field who DO believe the Keynesian economics have a very good chance of working, and that we will be in a much deeper hole if we do nothing? _________________ I walk 47 miles of barb wire, I got a cobra snake for a necktie, a brand new house up on the road side, and it's made out of rattlesnake hide
I suppose at one point we did, when you could trust the public to actually ensure at least a possibility of a free election.
Consider that in 2000, George W. Bush narrowly won (?) the election from Gore and that Neocon piece of crap, Lieberman.
He only lost the popular election, which, as you know, is not how we elect the president.
Thank you Captain Oblivious! In total sarcasm, I didn't realize that.
cameraboy wrote:
Quote:
Now, in 2004, after it became clear there were no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, after it was clear that binLaden was allowed to escape, after the enormously unpopular Patriot Act was passed into law, Bush won re-election again, after about 2 trillion dollars was added to the national debt and after a 30% growth in Federal government, and this time won the popular vote, again narrowly.
This would mean that all the Republicans that wanted small government, the end of nation building, and a reduced deficit all voted to re-elect him again, and not only that, some Democratic voters voted for him in 2004 that voted against him in 2000.
Yes. And I believe that. Because it is true and it happened. If you were around on this board back in 2004, you would have seen for yourself that Bush was still very popular. I'm sorry you don't like it, I didn't like it either, but that's how it goes.
You believe what is most comfortable to believe and, again, it didn't really make much of a difference who got elected anyhow.
Here is Obama - is the war over? Have the bailouts stopped? Is Haliburton fired? Have hired murder thugs mercenaries been discarded from the Iraq War?
No?? Golly, what a surprise - nothing has changed.
Topics have changed, now we argue about totally different "issues", like cap trade and national health care, instead of gay marriage, and flag burning. Meanwhile, the country continues to go bankrupt. That's not even really an "issue" is it? Never much discussed anywhere on teevee, is it?
Who "really" got elected by the nation of morons is precisely the topic I couldn't care less about. It wouldn't have made any significant difference who won the election, that's the point. That's what you have to realize. The idea we live in a democracy is just an idea - we don't.
Incidentally in 2004, I was on the Fannie Mae message board in yahoo, then later in Investor Village, waiting for the demise of the company, investing in GLD and SLV. Still surprised Franklin Raines got off so easy, but shouldn't be. I'm only here really because somebody wanted to see what would happen if I got on here for a bit. I don't have any personal stake and politics are meaningless anyhow. Over 75% of the country opposed the bailouts and 94% of congress was re-elected anyhow. It doesn't make a damned bit of difference what you plebeians want, or are convinced you want by the media. They don't care what you think, and they don't represent you and "we" re-elect (according to you) them anyhow.
If they aren't being re-elected that means the voting public is stupid to let them steal an election, and if they are being re-elected, it means the voting public is stupid to re-elect.
Who really cares in which way precisely that the general populace is being stupid? The point is they are stupid. It's easy to draw that conclusion when both forks on the road take you to the same destination. People all get hung up on the fork though, and argue about which way we ought to go or should have gone. Who cares? Look on the map, and observe we arrive at the same destination anyhow. No need for argument.
cameraboy wrote:
Quote:
What's sad, is you believe what you're told is going on. What's sad is you don't talk to enough people in real life to identify that a lot of people were quite surprised to see Bush re-elected. I know several Republicans that sat out in 2004, and I don't know a single Democrat that switched sides in 2004. It's obvious to me what happene
No, what's sad is that you seem to be another whack job that thinks they have an accurate view of what the entire country thinks because you talked to a bunch of people you know.
Fine, whatever, I'm nutjob.
I don't really care about politics anymore, I just got on here because somebody wanted to see the resulting reaction of me posting here. People are oblivious and stupid, and nothing I can do will change that. I understand that completely.
Here, let's try an experiment: Go ahead and watch this:
Now, if you watched that and read that, and I doubt you did, but if you did, I know the type of person you are. To you, it's perfectly reasonable that the tapes were lost, and it was merely a coincidence the building came down 20 minutes after it was reported it had collapsed.
You will simply accept that. After all, you really never really heard anything about it in the news did you? Therefore, it wasn't important.
The only thing that I find interesting, is you never heard about that ever in the US media - have you? It doesn't matter why it was never really reported, nobody cares.
For example, you don't care. Not really. Honestly, I don't care either, but I'm interested in it from curiosity point of view.
Now, in your "mind" I'm insane to think maybe the BBC is a propaganda outlet, and you're sane to believe that it's perfectly reasonable to think that, through some bizarre coincidence, that a news agency could accidentally predict the collapse of WTC 7, when there were 2 other builds closer to WTC 1 & 2 that were taller than WTC 7, and closer to WTC 1 & 2. It's also not at all surprising that the original tapes from one of the biggest stories in 4 decades were lost, and that the people who did the report, haven't been heard from to explain what happened and the wierd cut off? Just typical technical difficulties.
See, I could buy some of that as being true, and I'm certain some of it is true, but not all of it.
What differentiates me and you is that I'd rather be considered crazy, than a pawn. You're not comfortable thinking independently and you avoid doing it, most people aren't capable of thinking independently, which is why so many people are so easily duped.
I should remind you of Operation Ajax, which was once a "conspiracy theory". Well, it's out in the open now, it's now known that the United States overthrew a Democracy in Iran in 1953 for the intended purpose of stealing oil.
Is the country up in arms about it? No - they aren't. Nobody cares. Even if 9/11 was proved to have been done partially or in full by the government, or been allowed to happen, nobody is going to care. It doesn't matter. It's only useful for evaluating general American stupidity to me.
Wow. Usually it takes TWO pages for the WTC conspiracy nutjobs to reveal themselves...
Quote:
I should remind you of Operation Ajax, which was once a "conspiracy teory". Well, it's out in the open now, it's now known that the United States overthrew a Democracy in Iran in 1953 for the intended purpose of stealing oil.
Is the country up in arms about it? No - they aren't. Nobody cares.
Actually, I've pointed out the American/Iranian history several times. I think we are well aware of what we did, and I'm pretty sure a lot of people care. _________________ I walk 47 miles of barb wire, I got a cobra snake for a necktie, a brand new house up on the road side, and it's made out of rattlesnake hide
Wow. Usually it takes TWO pages for the WTC conspiracy nutjobs to reveal themselves...
I draw no conclusions, and I see you offer no input - which is exactly what I predicted.
Again, my point is, that regardless of what data I can show you, you have a preset conclusion, just as you are programmed to have. That's what is relevant.
cameraboy wrote:
Quote:
I should remind you of Operation Ajax, which was once a "conspiracy teory". Well, it's out in the open now, it's now known that the United States overthrew a Democracy in Iran in 1953 for the intended purpose of stealing oil.
Is the country up in arms about it? No - they aren't. Nobody cares.
Actually, I've pointed out the American/Iranian history several times. I think we are well aware of what we did, and I'm pretty sure a lot of people care.
Oh, people care - do they? That's ludicrous.
Tell me, since Operation Ajax was revealed with the Freedom of Information Act, what has changed about our government or the general populace under the rule of the government?
Name one thing.
And you "think" - it's laughable. You don't think at all. You "think" people are well aware of Operation Ajax? Ok, let's test this hypothesis.
Ask as many people as you can, individually, what Operation Ajax was. If they don't know, tell them it happened in 1953 and in Iran. If they still don't know, tell them that a democracy was over-turned in Iran through this Operation.
If they can identify the CIA and MI4 as the instigators, they "pass". You'll be lucky to get 1 person to pass.
Every person in Iran knows what Operation Ajax is, and most people in the Middle East. They don't "h8 us fer R freedom" but 1/2 of the country believes that, not because they are stupid, it's because they are stupid and Republican. The other half doesn't believe it, because they are Democrats that hate Bush. If Obama said it, the situation would have been reversed.
Tell me, since Operation Ajax was revealed with the Freedom of Information Act, what has changed about our government or the general populace under the rule of the government?
Well, we have elected different people, we have admitted what we did, and most importantly, we have stayed out of Iran's current political turmoil. I would say that is significant.
You're own cynicism blinds you and opens your eyes to ridiculous ideas.
[qote]
And you "think" - it's laughable. You don't think at all. You "think" people are well aware of Operation Ajax? Ok, let's test this hypothesis. [/quote]
Hey, everyone that reads this board and has been around for a few years... how many times have we gone over the US's actions in the middle east since the end of WWII? _________________ I walk 47 miles of barb wire, I got a cobra snake for a necktie, a brand new house up on the road side, and it's made out of rattlesnake hide
Tell me, since Operation Ajax was revealed with the Freedom of Information Act, what has changed about our government or the general populace under the rule of the government?
Well, we have elected different people, we have admitted what we did, and most importantly, we have stayed out of Iran's current political turmoil. I would say that is significant.
You're own cynicism blinds you and opens your eyes to ridiculous ideas.
I actually know and talk to an Iranian. You know the idea that Ahmadinejad has stolen power, and there is a popular uprising in the majority to kick him out? It's not shared by the Iranian's I know. That idea that Ahmadinejad stole the election from Mousavi is an invention of western media.
That's how we're "keeping" out of it. Why do you suppose our media is trying to convince us that the election was stolen?
And: For god sakes, you're on the net, you can talk to anybody in the world with it. But where do you go to "find out" what is going on in a country on the other side of the planet for which our country has a 30 year history of continuous conflict with?
You go to a US news outlet that has been wrong on weapons of mass destruction, on the dot.com bubble, the housing bubble, and the "soft landing" in the housing market. Remember when it was "all contained to subprime?"
Yeah, I just have such nutty ridiculous ideas!
cameraboy wrote:
Quote:
And you "think" - it's laughable. You don't think at all. You "think" people are well aware of Operation Ajax? Ok, let's test this hypothesis.
Hey, everyone that reads this board and has been around for a few years... how many times have we gone over the US's actions in the middle east since the end of WWII?
I really don't care what people here know.
Again, and to be absolutely clear so even you can understand it, the nation itself doesn't care. Nothing has changed as a result of the revelation that the US overthrew a democracy in the Middle East, in Iran. If people really cared, people would be prosecuted. The overthrow of a democracy in Iran was nothing short of treason, and there are plenty of criminals still alive today that took part in that.
The vast majority of people don't care, so it doesn't matter since these morons are utterly 100% controlled by propaganda sent out though AP and Reuters - two agencies that produce 90+% of our "news" and for which you have no idea who owns them.
And they seem to be wrong a lot about some important things - wrong in such a way that it enables the government to do things like "accidentally" going to war over weapons of mass destruction that don't exist. Oopsie! I mean, Scott Ritter was the UN weapons inspector, a life long Republican, and an ex marine - why waste time putting him on the air for more than 2 hours a day during the run up to the war, unless it was 3:00 am?
Yes, I'm so blinded by my cynicism.
You can believe it's better than it is, or you can accept how it is - but you can't change it either way.
I actually know and talk to an Iranian. You know the idea that Ahmadinejad has stolen power, and there is a popular uprising in the majority to kick him out? It's not shared by the Iranian's I know. That idea that Ahmadinejad stole the election from Mousavi is an invention of western media.
That's how we're "keeping" out of it. Why do you suppose our media is trying to convince us that the election was stolen?
Calling Chavez. Calling Chavez...
Quote:
Why do you suppose our media is trying to convince us that the election was stolen?
I don't think our media is trying to convince us any election has been "stolen." At least not any of the media I listen to.
Quote:
You go to a US news outlet that has been wrong on weapons of mass destruction, on the dot.com bubble, the housing bubble, and the "soft landing" in the housing market. Remember when it was "all contained to subprime?"
Actually, no I don't. I go to NPR usually, which was not any of the things you claim above.
Quote:
Nothing has changed as a result of the revelation that the US overthrew a democracy in the Middle East, in Iran.
ONce again, so even YOU can understand it (if it gets past the tin foil) we uncharacteristically not only stayed out of Iran's current political unrest (although you seem to allude to a belief that it's all made up? ) we didn't even make a strong or definitive statement about it. That is significantly different from our actions in the middle east in the past.
Quote:
Nothing has changed as a result of the revelation that the US overthrew a democracy in the Middle East, in Iran.
Actually, we didn't overthrow a democracy. We assisted someone else to overthrow a democracy. Also, it could not be treason, as you can only be a traitor to something you have sworn allegiance to. So you should stop stop throwing around inaccurate buzzwords that more reflect your obviously off kilter ideas instead of the reality.
I disagree with what we did in Iran, and with what we did in Iraq, and with the WMD claims. But I should point out that at least NPR aired reports from inspectors that claimed there were no WMDs.
So, I suppose you think that the following people are ALL in on the conspiracy to spread misinformation or keep americans in the dark?
John McLaughlin
Eleanor Clift
Daniel Shore
Clarence Page
Pat Buchannan
Monica Crowley
the entire NPR staff
The entire BBC America News Staff
All of Fox
all of NBC
All of CBS
All of reuters
All of ABC
All of Conus
Everyone who works for these organizations is either stupid, lazy, or paid? My, with so many people needing to be paid off, no wonder we have a large national debt! _________________ I walk 47 miles of barb wire, I got a cobra snake for a necktie, a brand new house up on the road side, and it's made out of rattlesnake hide
I actually know and talk to an Iranian. You know the idea that Ahmadinejad has stolen power, and there is a popular uprising in the majority to kick him out? It's not shared by the Iranian's I know. That idea that Ahmadinejad stole the election from Mousavi is an invention of western media.
That's how we're "keeping" out of it. Why do you suppose our media is trying to convince us that the election was stolen?
Calling Chavez. Calling Chavez...
And I've lost interest in this exercise in futility.
I actually know and talk to an Iranian. You know the idea that Ahmadinejad has stolen power, and there is a popular uprising in the majority to kick him out? It's not shared by the Iranian's I know. That idea that Ahmadinejad stole the election from Mousavi is an invention of western media.
That's how we're "keeping" out of it. Why do you suppose our media is trying to convince us that the election was stolen?
Calling Chavez. Calling Chavez...
And I've lost interest in this exercise in futility.
Maybe if you stuck around and understood a bit about our constituents you would realize the Chavez has a close connection with someone in Iran and is in touch with the general sentiments of the younger generation of Iranians. But, it seems you have used your invention of the cable modem to figure it all out. _________________
Quote:
You don't meet many old vegans. It's mostly young priviliged kids trying to figure out where they stand in the world.
Richardwicks there are people on this forum that believe in "their" party so much that they would rather drink bleach and die in a pool of vomit than to consider that they are just a pawn...I've been labeled a "nut job" a "tin foil hat guy" and everything else because I have spoken up, said things dont match up and provided proof...It really isnt worth wasting your time because in many cases party affiliation trumps the truth..What I do find funny is that if you look at what the the "conspiracy theorist" where saying ten years ago, its exactly what is going on today...It doesnt matter how much proof you have in the past and how right you were back then you are still labeled a nut job today...Its bread and circus at this point...Keep the people with enough food, beer and sports on TV and they wont do a thing. _________________ You know you own someone when you can agitate them enough to quote you in their signature.
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