Upgrading on a Budget

Okie Boarder · Ladies Man Joined: 03 Mar 2008 Posts: 10056 City: Edmond

Okay, now I've been grinding and getting most everything clean. The only areas of concern are right in the front center of the shaft log flange where I've only gotten a real deep scuff. I can't quite get down to the original fiberglass but it is scuffed real good. Also, the under side of the shaft log flange is a struggle. How critical is it to get everything down to original fiberglass or metal?

8122pbrainard · Outlaw Joined: 10 Feb 2009 Posts: 111 City: Northfield

Okie,
My only concern is we don't know what was used (epoxy?) on the the repair. If what's left seems like it's really stuck to the glass and metal then you'll have to assume the bond is good.

I do recommend you try to level out any real high spots so the new filled epoxy is fairly equal in thickness. The area in the front center of the log see if you can at least scrape the surface with something like a wood chisel. Wash the area down with some acetone and scrape again. Check for any loose flaky spots.

Okie Boarder · Ladies Man Joined: 03 Mar 2008 Posts: 10056 City: Edmond

OK ,will do. It is mostly some kind of "caulk" product. I'll spend some time tomorrow doing some cleaning and scraping and finish with the acetone. It's mostly level and clean except a few spots and I'll work on those. I'll post some pics too. I pulled the plastic covering and I'm working on clean up, then I'll follow up with some scraping and acetone clean, which should get me ready for the next step.

MasonH · Soul Rider Joined: 10 Jan 2009 Posts: 422 City: Eufaula

Okie Boarder, Are planning on putting a tower on your new boat?

Okie Boarder · Ladies Man Joined: 03 Mar 2008 Posts: 10056 City: Edmond

Here's some pictures. I'm doing final clean up and wipe down with acetone today, along with prepping for putting the log in epoxy. Before I go buy the supplies, I'll be cutting some fabric and aying it down to simulate the fiberglass and take some pictures of that so I know I've got it right and know how much to buy.

Okie Boarder · Ladies Man Joined: 03 Mar 2008 Posts: 10056 City: Edmond

MasonH, I'll put a tower on it in the next year or two. It has the extended pylon, so we'll live with that for now.

8122pbrainard · Outlaw Joined: 10 Feb 2009 Posts: 111 City: Northfield

Okie,
Looking great!! The solvent wipe is to be sure there isn't any grease/oil still on the hull and log.

Okie Boarder · Ladies Man Joined: 03 Mar 2008 Posts: 10056 City: Edmond

Here's some pictures of the fabric I cut to simulate the fiberglass layers. This gives me a pretty good idea of how I can lay things in for good overlap and layover to the original layer. I calculated needed sizes based on these pieces and it looks like I'll need ~400 sq in of woven roving and ~500 sq in of cloth.

Comments?

Okie Boarder · Ladies Man Joined: 03 Mar 2008 Posts: 10056 City: Edmond

Last couple pics...

8122pbrainard · Outlaw Joined: 10 Feb 2009 Posts: 111 City: Northfield

Yup, You've got the idea! Just be careful of the buildup (thickness) forward of the log. You don't want it to thick so you can't get the rubber coupling hose back on! I feel two layers of cloth there would work just like you pictured.

MasonH · Soul Rider Joined: 10 Jan 2009 Posts: 422 City: Eufaula

Hope you have a great time with your boat man!

m_lesney · Soul Rider Joined: 22 Feb 2008 Posts: 358 City: Austin

Great job !!
8122pbrainard, its been awesome reading your advice!

Okie Boarder · Ladies Man Joined: 03 Mar 2008 Posts: 10056 City: Edmond

So, yesterday was a bit of a bummer. Boaters World was closed and I can't seem to find the poly pipe at Home Depot or Lowe's. I'll run by a plumbing supply place on my way in this morning and plan to go by Boaters World on lunch or after work. I went ahead and started on some of my stereo install, while I couldn't work on the log repair. I'll have to be sure to take some pictures of that. I'm simply upgrading my 6 1/2" speakers to ones I bought from a friend, that I'll run off deck power. Then I also got a sub and amp from the same friend.

I am planning to to the engine alignment...when I unbolted the coupler, it looked like it was a little off. I still need to check to be sure, but I'd bet it needs a little tweaking. Would you recommend getting that done prior to setting the log?

Okie Boarder · Ladies Man Joined: 03 Mar 2008 Posts: 10056 City: Edmond

Wow, still no luck finding the poly pipe / tubing. I have one other place to check or I could order something online. Any ideas for alternatives?

8122pbrainard · Outlaw Joined: 10 Feb 2009 Posts: 111 City: Northfield

Okie,
The exact name is "HDPE flexible polyethyene water pipe". I did find it in my Home Depot "Pro Book" but didn't on the HD site but sometimes everything isn't listed on their site. A plumbing supply certainly will have it but I'm not to sure if they would sell you 2 feet of the 1" and 1&1/4" you would need. Look at HD again in the area where they would be selling the underground lawn sprinkling parts if not in the plumbing/pipe section. You could do a online search but I have a feeling you would run into the small quantity (2' of each) problem. Do you know anyone in the sprinkler bussiness?

I just checked mcmaster.com and they do list 5' lengths available in their catalog but on line I entered 2' in the order entry and it took the order. Use their search feature for # 50375K59 (1" x 1&1/4") and #50375K61 (1&1/4" x 1&1/2") This is a off white but the color doesn't matter.

Yes, do the alignment before you do the log. You want the engine/prop shaft to be as close to aligned as possible so the log's in the correct spot. The gap difference between the coupling halves should be a max of .003" side to side and top to bottom. Usually you can get it alot closer. The closer to 0, the better.

Okie Boarder · Ladies Man Joined: 03 Mar 2008 Posts: 10056 City: Edmond

I'll keep looking and see what I can find. I'll probably focus on getting the alignment done this week, and finding the pipe. Then, next weekend I can finish up the job. How long should I let the epoxy cure before laying the fiberglass? How long should I wait after that to put it on the water?

8122pbrainard · Outlaw Joined: 10 Feb 2009 Posts: 111 City: Northfield

Okie,
When you set the log in the thickened epoxy, you will want it to set up for at least several hours. This will ensure it doesn't move when you pull the plastic pipe out of the log. I'm suggesting pulling it before proceeding on to the roving and cloth layers. I'm not anticipating any problems getting it out - it's sort of "just in case"!! The roving and the cloth can be done all at one time. Mixing small batches of epoxy as needed. The pot life should give you plenty of working time but large batches of epoxy in a small container will concentrate the heat and it will kick (cure) faster!

I'd leave it sit for a couple of days before dropping it in the lake.

You did look at that alignment link I posted? Any questions, just holler. BTW, people often overlook their alignment until it gets so bad that it tears up the trans! I feel it should be checked once a year.

Commodore · Ladies Man Joined: 20 Jun 2005 Posts: 11636

Okie Boarder, looks like you are on the right track bud, and doing it right. Slow and smooth.

Okie Boarder · Ladies Man Joined: 03 Mar 2008 Posts: 10056 City: Edmond

Okie Boarder · Ladies Man Joined: 03 Mar 2008 Posts: 10056 City: Edmond

I'm still trying to find the poly pipe I need with no luck. I've been to plumbing supply, irrigation supply places and HD and Lowes. Is there another option? I'm fiinding the type of pipe I need, but not big enough and if I find anything close it is sold in 50' or 100' quantities.

8122pbrainard · Outlaw Joined: 10 Feb 2009 Posts: 111 City: Northfield

Okie Boarder · Ladies Man Joined: 03 Mar 2008 Posts: 10056 City: Edmond

Could I just do PVC and wrap it in the plastic wrap?

8122pbrainard · Outlaw Joined: 10 Feb 2009 Posts: 111 City: Northfield

The pvc is worth a try. Just make sure it's wrapped real good with the stretch wrap. You're going to post pictures anyway because I do want to see what you come up with.

Okie Boarder · Ladies Man Joined: 03 Mar 2008 Posts: 10056 City: Edmond

There is a Grainger just down the road from my office. I'm going to try them as my last effort.

If not, I'll go with the pvc and wrap it. The reason I want to have something the epoxy won't stick to is to make sure I don't create a bridge of the epoxy to the pie and not be able to get it off, right?

8122pbrainard · Outlaw Joined: 10 Feb 2009 Posts: 111 City: Northfield

Okie,
I think you'll run into the same problem at Grainger. 100' coils only plus they only go to 1" (ID) and don't list a 1&1/4".

If you go with the PVC, split it down the middle into two half rounds and then wrap it back together over the shaft with the stretch wrap. Slid it forward into and through the log slightly and take a picture.

Okie Boarder · Ladies Man Joined: 03 Mar 2008 Posts: 10056 City: Edmond

Will do.

Do you know how much of the colloidal silica I'm going to need to add, or the ratio? Or, should I call MAS?

8122pbrainard · Outlaw Joined: 10 Feb 2009 Posts: 111 City: Northfield

There isn't any set ratio of fillers to resin. It's based more on what you want to do with it. If you're filling a large hole on a vertical, you mix it thick like peanut butter so it doesn't run out or sag. If you're trying to get the mix into a small crevice then you mix it thinner.

With your first batch of epoxy, I'd start with about 5 to 6 pumps of resin and hardener. Starting with small batches until you get a feel for the pot life is smarter that mixing up a large batch and then having it "kick" (set up) on you in your mixing cup! You can always mix more! Mix this first batch and then with a small "acid" brush (the small 3/8 wide metal handle ones) preprime the log flange and the hull where you will be filling with the thickened mix and bedding the log. This is just a light coat to soak into any open pores. Then mix in the filler to the peanut butter consistency. Spread just enough on both the log and the hull to fill any gaps. Spread a "blob" of it at the aft end of the hull where the log isn't long enough making sure the rear log flange will bed to it. Press the log into the epoxy, center it on the prop shaft, smooth out any excess at the edges and wait for it to set up. Hopefully you won't have too much ooze out onto the shaft side but that's what the stretch wrapped PVC is for!!

Okie Boarder · Ladies Man Joined: 03 Mar 2008 Posts: 10056 City: Edmond

OK, sounds good. I'm going to mess with getting the PVC ready tonight or first thing tomorrow and post pictures. I still need to do the alignment and then I'll be ready to set the log.

So, do I want the log flanges to be totally bed into the epoxy so there is a bit of a fillet from the hull fiberglass to the top of the flange?

Does epoxy not stick to the plastic wrap? If not, I've got a good idea to have something underneath that aft end where the log doesn't cover using some cardboard or similar, covered in plastic wrap, that can help trap the epoxy and not let it sag out of the area. I can make that shaped "cover" and hold it in place with some tape or something while the thickened epoxy sets up.

What type of "cup" should I mix the epoxy up in?

8122pbrainard · Outlaw Joined: 10 Feb 2009 Posts: 111 City: Northfield

Okie,
They do have plastic cups you can buy or for small jobs I've always found unwaxed paper cups to work great.

Yes, you want the log flanges to have a fillet around the edges. It will make it easier to lay the next layers of glass in. The roving doesn't like to go over sharp corners or bends.

Hopefully the epoxy won't stick to the plastic wrap you use but if it does, you'll be able to get the PVC out of the center and then tear out the plastic wrap. I don't think it will stick.

Okie Boarder · Ladies Man Joined: 03 Mar 2008 Posts: 10056 City: Edmond

Here’s some pictures trying to set the log in place using the PVC spacers. The 1.25” OD fits not problem, but the 1.5” OD won’t fit. My thought is to use a paper towel roll piece to fill the space from the top. Things are pretty tight and it seems like even the 1.25” OD pipe is trying to lift or interfere with the shaft log from underneath. Take a look at the pictures and let me know what you think.

I’m thinking maybe I just want to use some wood wedge shims from the forward side of the shaft log hole for positioning and protect the shaft with some plastic wrap. Then I can set things down and do some minor adjustments before it starts to set and then just leave it alone.

Thoughts?

I’m going to do some practice on scrap wood today of mixing the epoxy and spreading it. If I feel comfortable with how I’m doing and any answers, I’ll set the log later this afternoon.

Okie Boarder · Ladies Man Joined: 03 Mar 2008 Posts: 10056 City: Edmond

In between the work I am doing on the repair, I've been working on a few other items. I started working on getting the stereo ready to go, along with a depth sounder. I used the stereo we had in the other boat and looked into upgrading and adding a few items. I got some speakers, a sub and amp from a friend for a good deal. I also bought a wired remote so we can control the stereo from the driver's seat. Attached are some photos of the stereo, remote, sub mounted in a box I built and the amp with a temp hook up. Everything sounds really good. We were messing with it Monday night and the boys kept coming out in the garage telling us to turn it down because they were trying to sleep...LOL! I thought that normally was the other way around. It definitely shakes, rumbles and rattles everything in the garage when the bass hits. All I need to do is get the box covered and mounted in place, along with getting the stereo and amp mounted and wires ran. I'm going to run a second "Deep Cycle" battery for the stereo. That way if the battery goes dead on the lake, we can still start the boat with the regular battery. I'm looking forward to getting everything done and getting out on the water in the next couple weeks.

Okie Boarder · Ladies Man Joined: 03 Mar 2008 Posts: 10056 City: Edmond

More pics...

Okie Boarder · Ladies Man Joined: 03 Mar 2008 Posts: 10056 City: Edmond

Last couple pics...

8122pbrainard · Outlaw Joined: 10 Feb 2009 Posts: 111 City: Northfield

Okie,
Just go with the 1.25 OD. It will still give you a good idea on the placement/centering of the log. Since it's not a perfect "form", set the log in the epoxy but before it cures have someone hold the log so it doesn't move and remove the PCV/plastic wrap. This will allow you to get up into the hole with a putty knife and smooth things out. Yes, the wooden wedges was something I mentioned many posts ago before we saw the big hole aft of the log!

Okie Boarder · Ladies Man Joined: 03 Mar 2008 Posts: 10056 City: Edmond

Here's a few pictures with it just set in the thickened epoxy. I'll be pulling the PVC later tonight. I got some good seepage of the thickened epoxy underneath and I've been filletting it in on the edges underneath as it seeps out. After these pictures, I added a little more thickended epoxy to fillet it in real good. We should be good to go for the layers of fiberglass now.

Do I want to scuff up this layer or acetone clean again before laying the fiberglass?