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MC Prostar 205V custom ballast install
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gghost
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PostPosted: Aug 10, 2008 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

that is kinda what i am thinking, when the first impeller messed up it sent large parts of the impeller through the system and now has messed up the second one maybe that is what happened and i need to flush the system somehow. Or i put it together the wrong way the first time. Anyways no the two pumps are on separate thru hulls so i don't think that was the original problem. I guess the thing to do would be flush the system then check all fittings for tightness and reinstall the new pump housings. The pumps that are messing up are for the bow sac and for the center sac so maybe they have just been ran dry a little bit more than the back two?
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PostPosted: Aug 13, 2008 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gghost,

I got the new housing, put it on, slapped in a new impeller and it's good to go (works fine).

Make sure you inspect the impellers closely. You cannot just do it by popping off the cap and looking at them installed. I almost missed a bad one until I took a second look by bending the impeller and checking for cracks towards the base of the vanes.

FYI...The housing come with a heavy grease on the bottom wear plate.

I hope you find your issue. Let me know if I can help.

Paul

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gghost
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PostPosted: Aug 15, 2008 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am pretty sure the only way it could get hot enough to melt plastic is if there was no water going through the pump
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PostPosted: Aug 23, 2008 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

well i got a new solution i am getting two new total pump bodies and the plan is to sell that boat asap not due to those minor problems i just want something newer so i got a my loan approved yesterday for a 2001 malibu vlx. can't wait to install a new ballast system this one already has 5 aerator pumps on it so i will just stick with those and just make it an automatic system. Now i just need to figure out the best way to do that. Paul do you know any good forums for that?
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PostPosted: Aug 24, 2008 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Congrats on the potential new ride! Post some pics when you get a chance.

www.themalibucrew.com ???

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gghost
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PostPosted: Aug 24, 2008 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[/url]http://cincinnati.craigslist.org/boa/750370003.html
If that link doesn't work just go to cincy craigslist type in malibu its the one in harrison, you may know ben, thanks for the link

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PostPosted: Oct 07, 2008 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

well even after new pump bodies i can't get these pumps to work i think i am just going to leave it and try to sell it, I don't think i would put another simer in a boat though they just don't hold up for this type of use...
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PostPosted: Oct 08, 2008 9:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gghost,

Sorry about your continued problems. Doesn't sound like fun.

Are you sure you are getting a good prime? W/O water flow, those housings heat up! I had steam rolling out of mine when I popped the top when I was having an issue.

Are you filling from the top of your sacs, or from the bottom? If from the bottom, I wonder if you are exceeding the 'head' pressure of the pump and causing it to stall, or not pump any water. That might cause some extreme heating in the housing.

I understand your frustration, but it might not be the pump directly. I've had only the one problem with mine and I can buy about 3 Simers for the price of 1 Jabsco. Not knocking Jabsco at all...just saying...I've used both and there are reasons I went with Simer.

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PostPosted: Nov 03, 2008 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is a priming issue, i just don't know why it worked fine for the long period it did and now they don't want to prime at all...i wouldn't pay that money for the jabsco either... aerator pumps is what i will be sticking too
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PostPosted: Nov 25, 2008 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey phat... how did you winterize your system?
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PostPosted: Feb 07, 2009 6:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, I'm starting to think about what I might want to do for automatic ballast and a few basic questions come to mind...

1. Is it best to have a seperate fill, drain and vent line for each bag?
2. Is it best to have a seperate thru hull inlet, output and vent hole for each bag?
3. Should I consider having a pump for each bag?
4. Is it better to have bi-directional pumps or just have one pump for fill and one pump for drain?

My initial concept is to put a sac to fill the bow, then 4 sacks in the back (under the seat and in the rear ski locker). The sacks in the back would be sized to cover half the width of the boat. With this configuration I think it would be feasible to drain and fill to balance weight side-to-side for slight adjustments and for surfing.

I'm looking at the fly high bow sack (~1000 pounds), then go with 4 regular sacks that are 350 pounds each. That gives me the potential of 1000 in the front and 1400 in the rear.

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j4t3
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PostPosted: Feb 11, 2009 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had a very similar problem it was solved by always opening the valve before I dipped the boat, if I opened it after the boat was in the water the pumps would never prime. it was like there was a air bubble it the line
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PostPosted: Mar 12, 2009 8:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oakie - For surfing it is not necessary to separate the back sacs, imho. Any rear weight is great. I would separate the front sacs. That amount of weight is good, but for surfing you will likely need a sac on the floor that is 700lbs.

When we are wakeboarding we drain the surf sac, leave the rear sacs full and fill the single sac in front that was empty for surfing (bow starboard). Then to balance it we fill the surf sac part way.

Your idea is good but I don't know that the amount of weight involved is large enough. In mine I can only fit a 270 in the ski locker and a 270 under the rear seat. So if you separate them, you would only surf with 270 on stern port side? That is not enough at all. And yes bow weight is good, but surf wave is not good when you weight the bow a LOT. You want some up there, but only on port side. I put 400lbsx2 surf sac up there. Then fill the rear, and separate the bow.

For pumps, why use two when one will do? The simer pumps are WAY superior to aerators in my opinion. They are reversible AND self priming.

To recap I have a 270 in ski locker, 270 under rear bench seat. 400 in bow port side, 400 in bow starboard side. 700 on the port rear floor.

When not in use we stow the floor sac easily. The bow is huge there is room to tuck the bow sacs so far out of the way, nearly the entire bow area is open for storage still! The 1000lb bow sac will fill your WHOLE storage and I strongly think that is too much bow weight if full. Makes the wake way too rampy, the table is too high and it is not a good wake at all.

For total weight I probably put 800 in stern and 600 in bow. Looking to up that just a tad this year but keeping proportions the same. Thanks for listening!

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PostPosted: Oct 24, 2009 5:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

P hat, which rear bags are you using? I know their the fly high ones, but not sure which ones. I have a '00 205V that I am gonna do ballast on this winter, and probably mimic your set up. Only difference is I will probably drain out the vents in the side of the boat, which means I am gonna need a ton of check valves, which ones (check valves) seem to be the best?
And very nice setup.
Thanks
Morgan
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P hat in Cincy
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PostPosted: Oct 27, 2009 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Morgan,

Thanks for the compliment.

I have the 750's in the back. They fit perfectly, but I did have to reinforce my engine wall dividers.

I think I got all my PVC swing check valves from www.plumbingsupply.com

Let me know if you have any more questions.

Take care,
Paul

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PostPosted: Oct 27, 2009 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

P hat in Cincy, you might know this off the top of your head...I haven't tried researching yet. Are Simers ignition protected?
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Suprahunter
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PostPosted: Oct 28, 2009 5:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okie
The system used on my 210 is very simple. It uses 3 Jabsco reversible pumps
no check valves and separate fill and vent lines to each tank. I put 120 hours on this year and never had any problems. I just winterized and the impellers still all look great. I think this is the best system but probubly not the cheapest.
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PostPosted: Oct 31, 2009 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okie Boarder wrote:
P hat in Cincy, you might know this off the top of your head...I haven't tried researching yet. Are Simers ignition protected?


Okie,
Simers are NOT ignition protected.

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PostPosted: Nov 01, 2009 8:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So how does that impact where they can be put. I've got some space back between my ski locker and outer hull wall on my Supra. Problem is the gas tank is right there too. If I added vents or blowers right there am I still risking ignition?

Would it be any different if I built a compartment in the floor up towards the front of the ballast bag compartments I'm making during my rebuild?

Suprahunter, the Jabsco's might be an option, but they're so expensive!

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P hat in Cincy
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PostPosted: Nov 02, 2009 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would hate to give you an answer and be wrong. I can tell you that mine are in my rear storage areas, but are mounted about 2' higher than the bilge with no significant odors of fuel in that area. A friend of mine has one in his center locker of his SAN, but I think it's pretty isolated.

I guess I'd rather be safe than sorry.

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PostPosted: Nov 02, 2009 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What are your thoughts on having blowers that vent out the area prior to turning on the pumps? Is venting out the area just as good?
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PostPosted: Nov 03, 2009 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They use the same method to 'air out' the engine compartment...
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PostPosted: Nov 06, 2009 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My thought is that maybe I could take this route. It would be less expensive than getting Jabsco's. It would also be much less complex than using aerator style pumps. I can get a blower for about $25...put one on each side and have the hosing real close to that area to air it out really good.

If I make a master power switch to the ballast switches that turns on the blowers and disables power to the switches until a timer relay closes, it will ensure a fail safe. Seems like it would probably work.

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PostPosted: Nov 17, 2009 2:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

P hat, How did you get this hatch open, I tried to get it open last night and can't figure out the trick.

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PostPosted: Nov 17, 2009 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

macdadmorgan wrote:
P hat, How did you get this hatch open, I tried to get it open last night and can't figure out the trick.


I used a flat-head (standard) screwdriver in the forward corners to pry up the floor. Then I 'rocked' the panel side-to-side (port / starboard) while pulling toward the bow and giving it just enough height to slide over the surrounding floor.

The bigger difficulty was putting it back in. MC put a little shim (on mine) in one of the rear corners that made it difficult to slide back in. I removed the shim as it's only 1/8" different.

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PostPosted: Nov 18, 2009 2:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cool, it seemed like a pressure fit, and couldn't find any fasteners, but didn't want to go prying away with out knowing.
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PostPosted: Nov 18, 2009 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Morgan,
That's correct. In my case, it was basically the friction caused by the carpet. Just don't lift up too high when walking it out. You don't want to leverage against your seat base.

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PostPosted: Mar 01, 2010 8:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Reviving an old thread here...he he.

I'm planning to do one through hull (You can see the description in my rebuild thread). Long term I'll do 3 simers up in the observer seat area. I really only have the ability to put in one through hull and I'm going to do it now. Should I go 1" or 1 1/2" to accomodate the multiple draw on the inlet later? Should I maybe even go bigger than that?

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PostPosted: Mar 11, 2010 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually, I figured out a way to put one through hull in for now with the ability to add more later and it will be down in the bilge area. I'm going to use the space under the spotters seat for the pumps. Right now I'm just going to do one pump. Depending on how my budget is after the rebuild, I may plumb it all in. If not, I'll have each bag have a pigtail hose I can connect to and there will be a hose connected to the pump that is long enough to reach any bag. The bag down in the belly of the boat will probably have a vent line installed this year. Not sure on the rest.

To revive an old question...

The check valves on the vent lines help ensure the bags drain fully and the pump doesn't suck air right? Do you orient the check valve so it lets water flow out when the bag overfills a bit but it blocks flow coming in?

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gghost
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PostPosted: Mar 19, 2010 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

aerator pumps arent complex to wire, draw less amps, last a long time, and they pump faster, I am not sure if they are ignition protected or not but i would say they would be safer than the simer. without a drain line you will never know when they are done and you will run the simer dry. Not trying to knock anyones system just expressing my opinion of having bad experience with them. Sure you may need two pumps instead of one but what the hell all you have to do is screw it into the bag and run some wires to it no need to remote mount it and deal with running plumbing lines all the way to it. Oh and they are quieter. Ok im done
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PostPosted: Jul 19, 2010 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its kind of funny to see this thread still having a huge impact on how people construct ballast systems on their boats. This was the tread i followed about 3-4 years ago when I first did a ballast installation on my boat. And its even better to see p-hat is still answering questions! Thats a good dude right there. Most people would have bailed on a topic after 3 years!

Back to the topic


Okie Boarder wrote:
Reviving an old thread here...I'm planning to do one through hull (You can see the description in my rebuild thread). Long term I'll do 3 simers up in the observer seat area. I really only have the ability to put in one through hull and I'm going to do it now. Should I go 1" or 1 1/2" to accomodate the multiple draw on the inlet later? Should I maybe even go bigger than that?


I am with ghost on the aerator vs simmer/jabsco reversable pump. I had horrible luck with simmer pumps. All 3 had issues, they draw a ton of amps and were really slow.

I stuck with those till they tanked on me. Then i did some research about the difference in amp draw and gph.

Positives:
1)Aerator pumps are available easily at 1100-1200 gph and use 2 amps (numbers might not be perfect but I know its darn cluse, maybe lower on the amps)
Simmers are around 300 gph and draw around 11 amps. (my numbers might not be perfect)
2) You wont blow up if you mount them in your bildge
3) A pump goes on you....its only 30-40 bucks to replace, sometimes less if you just order the cartridge!


The negative part that everyone will mention is:
1) Aerators need to be primed- not so hard when your filling, but can require you to push the pump into the bag when draining, a lot depends on your sacs
2)You need 1 for fill, one for drain- Ya but 2 pumps still costs a 1/3 of what they want for one Jabsco pump

Any others negatives I'm missing? Just trying to cover my bases

I modeled mine after this guys from the2001.com

http://www.leftlaneends.net/sn2001/page2.html

Where my ballast system is different than his, my thru hull is at the bottom of the boat vs the stern. Not sure if his flows better than mine, but I think it does. I get some air bubbles by being at the bottom of the hull vs the stern. But once you drill a 1.5 inch hole in the bottom of your boat theres no easy way to turn back

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P hat in Cincy
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PostPosted: Sep 23, 2010 7:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've had little issues with my setup, but what issues I have had revolve around the pumps. With that said, they have been minor and infrequent.

My ride is about where I want it to be, so now I'm looking for other upgrades to make to it. One option I've kicked around is putting aerators in for draining (over the sides) only.

All my DIYs have been fun learning experiences. I'm glad this thread continues to help others.

Thanks

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PostPosted: Feb 05, 2011 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's a great job, congrats. Nice boat as well
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PostPosted: Feb 10, 2011 5:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Awesome Phat Cool Great job!
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PostPosted: Mar 31, 2011 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just "because", I decided to 'upgrade' this project a bit (aka wanted a boat project to do). I'm moving the draining to pumps which will empty out the sides.

I'll use 5 - 1000gph aerator pumps. 1 on each rear bag, 1 on the center, a 2 on the front bag (due to geometry complications).

Filling will still be done using the 4 Simers.

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