Ballast System - with updated parts list

wesgardner · Last edited by wesgardner on Dec 30, 2005 7:14 am; edited 1 time in total

Hey All,

Here are some pics of the start of my ballast system....

The Plumbing Intake Side

It's a 2" manifold and will ultimately have 4 Tsunami 1200's as the intake pumps. I decided for ease of maintenance and repair to connect the Tsunami's to the manifold with short pieces of hose. Plus the fact that 1 1/8" stuff is hard to come by Shocked

This can be seen in the lower pic and keeps it about as compact as possible.

I'll be shooting some more pics as time goes by...all of the PVC parts were obtained at Lowe's, the Tsunami's were gotten at Bass Pro Shops.

Flapper style check valves will be installed in the plumbing runs somewhere to act as backflow preventors. The system's exhaust side will act as a vent for the fill pumps as well as provide overflow/rupture protection. I believe the piping running thru the boat will be rigid 1" PVC...I think I'm doing that this weekend but it's getting kinda cold "under the big top" - we'll see.

The exhaust side will simply be some Rule 1100 or similar connected to the sacs and to above-water thru hulls...

The Electrical Side

A fuse block will be installed near the switch panel and each fuse will be sized to handle one switch. I'll be using some SPDT lighted switches from Go2Marine....for all you aerator guys single pole is all you need as you will NOT be reversing the grounds (as is done with the Jabsco/Simer route)...you can just tie all the ground togther somewhere as they are COMMON and will stay common.. I'm shopping around today to get some plastic material to make a panel for the switches so maybe I'll work inside this weekend Smile

General

The thru hull fitting is 1 1/2" closed off by a PVC ball valve. I've kept a pretty good parts list which I'll post when I get closer to completion...just be advised...the cost all of this stuff mounts up pretty quickly! The system is designed for 2-700's in the stern and 2-600's in the ski locker

Wes

Vampyre · Addict Joined: 12 Oct 2004 Posts: 622 City: Ooltewah, TN

Looking good Wes. I'm curious why you are going with rigid PVC to feed your sacs, instead of say 1" flexible tubing (double clamped) ?
What kind of boat are you putting this into?

I am wanting to do this maybe for my I/O, but I am going to try to get an 06 Moomba at the end of next season.. so I'm not sure.

The part that freaks my wife and I out is the water intake part.."drilling a large 1 1/2 hole in a perfectly good hull buttom of my boat"
Makes us a little nervous, and wondering how it will affect resale value. Now, we would be selling the boat with the Monster Tower, so I would assume that the auto ballast would be appreciated, instead of the hole in the hull being a negative.

wesgardner · Posted: Dec 03, 2005 9:37 am Post subject:

Hey Vampyre,

My boat is on the large side (24'-10") it's a 1989 MC Maristar 240, so I thought that the rigid would be good if it were ever stepped on plus it's cheap...obviously I'll have to have a length of flex to allow the sac to fill and empty...

I've put so many thru-hulls in boats over the years I've lost count...doesn't both me at all...(I've even installed one in the wrong boat, but that's another story...)..bring 'er on over to the "lab" and I'll put yours in...no charge Very Happy

For below-the-waterline thru hulls, I bed them in with 3-M 5200 - they won't move...don't EVER use sillycone for a below-the-waterline install.

Dunno how this can/will affect resale value...obviously if you sell to another boarder, it's a plus I would think particularly if the system is first rate and as you've said, you alreafy have the tower...here's another angle - live with the over-the-side pumps for now and save the money for a kick-butt system in your Moomba.

Wes

wesgardner · Posted: Dec 29, 2005 12:07 pm Post subject:

Here's a partial list of stuff for the ballast system. I've not installed the drain-side stuff yet and for that matter, I've not plumbed in the fill side from the manifold to the sacks and yes, I owe the group some pics.

Ballast System Parts List

4 - Attwood Tsunami 1200 - $36 (Bass Pro Shops)
3 - 2” PVC T’s (Lowe’s)
4 – 2” to 1” PVC Reducing Bushings (solvent) (Lowe’s)
1 – 2” to 1 ½” Reducing Bushing (thread) (Lowe’s)
2” PVC Pipe (short lengths) (Lowe’s)
1” PVC Pipe (short lengths) (Lowe’s)
1 ¼” Tubing (short lengths) - $10.00 (Lowe’s)
24 - Hose Clamps (West Marine)
1 ½” Bronze Thru Hull (West Marine)
1 ½” Bronze Elbow (West Marine)
1 ½” PVC Ball Valve (Lowe’s)
3 - 1 ½” PVC Close Nipple (Lowe’s)
4 – SPDT Switches - $12.00 (Contura/ Blue Seas) (Go2 Marine)
1 – Fuse Block - $10.00 (West Marine)
50’ - 14/2 wire (West Marine)
Miscellaneous connectors - $15.00 (Lowe’s)
Plastic for panel - $15.00 (more than enough)
4 – Swing type solvent/solvent check valves – $9.50 (PlumbingSupply.com)
4 – Thru hulls for drains
4 – Pumps for drain side

Lemme know if I can help...

Wes

CP3 · Outlaw Joined: 01 Dec 2005 Posts: 219 City: SC

Wes did you use two pumps for each sac.
How did you drain the sacs.

wesgardner · Posted: Jan 05, 2006 6:04 am Post subject:

Hey CP3,
Yup, it's a two-pump-for-each-sac (aerator style) system. The drain or "empty" side will just be some (4) Rule 1000's or whatever's cheapest piped to a thru-hull up under the rail of the boat somewhere such that you can hear/see them pumping. On the electrical side - the SPDT switch merely selects between the fill and empty pump(s) for each sac.

My idea is to keep the system as simple and maintainable as I can and still have it fill fairly quickly...won't know just how fast 'til spring.

Wes

sanddragon2004 · Outlaw Joined: 27 Jun 2005 Posts: 152 City: San Jose

can you post more pics? im curios how you plumped the pumps to keep them from cavitating when pumping out? do you mount them under the floor? thanks for any help.

wesgardner · Posted: Jan 10, 2006 10:17 am Post subject:

Hey sanddragon2004,

Yes, I owe the group some pics...the intake manifold and it's four pumps will be below the waterline and therefore the pumps will prime themselves.

The "empty" side will work (I hope) just like a typical fat sac arrangement with the pump installed directly on the sac and plumbed to a thru hull at or near the rubrail.

My theory is I don't need a vent as the "empty" plumbing will act as one in the "fill" mode and in the "empty" mode, the sac will just get sucked dry and collapse.

Wes

CP3 · Outlaw Joined: 01 Dec 2005 Posts: 219 City: SC

Have you tried the system yet?
I'd like to see some pics of the switches and how you wired them.
I cant believe you found the pumps for that cheap!

sanddragon2004 · Outlaw Joined: 27 Jun 2005 Posts: 152 City: San Jose

ya that is cheap!

http://www.basspro.com/servlet/catalog.TextId?hvarTextId=52431&hvarTarget=search&cmCat=SearchResults

wesgardner · Posted: Jan 11, 2006 5:53 am Post subject:

Hey All,

Haven't tried the system as it's supposed to be cold here in Maryland (we're loosing snow on our surrounding hills pretty quickly but that's another story) and the boat's winterized. I'll try to shoot some pics this weekend. Here's a diagram for the switches. Basically the positive side of each of the pumps is switched, the negatives are all just tied together in some convenient location near the pumps (there's no reason to switch them in a SPDT arrangement as stated above somewhere - you're NOT reversing these pumps just SELECTING one or the other.)

The switches are nicely built (see the parts list in post above) and were easy to mount in the panel, they have a barb-style arrangment allowing them to "click-fit" into the opening and fit quite snugly (measure twice cut once) - like I said above somewhere, I just used some black poly-woly plastic about an 1/8" thick and cut it with a sabre saw - pics to follow someday Rolling Eyes

The switch can be installed in a variety of panel thicknesses but 1/8" seems to be about right - I'll eventually replace all the panels on my boat as they're all cracked.

Wes

CP3 · Outlaw Joined: 01 Dec 2005 Posts: 219 City: SC

I'm ordering 5 more pumps, 2 for each bag, after I bought one from fat sac for 99 dollars!

wesgardner · Posted: Feb 02, 2006 5:35 am Post subject:

Hey All,

Here are some pics of the switch panel for the ballast system. The first one is the rear of the panel showing the 4 SPDT switches installed...if you're interested, the "odd ball" lug is for the NEGATIVE side for the switch lighting. The remaining two pics are of the location of the panel by the throttle.

Wes

bremsen · Outlaw Joined: 08 Jun 2005 Posts: 168 City: Charlotte

Maybe this is a dumb question....but I'm gonna ask anyway.

Will a single thru-hull be able to supply enough for 4 1200s? Is it b/c they're below the waterline....maybe creating a siphon(sp?) effect?

wesgardner · Posted: Feb 02, 2006 3:50 pm Post subject:

Hey bremsen,

Honestly, I don't know...my assumption is because there will be some back pressure/restriction due to the piping/hose, the thing will be fast but not unrestricted. The rear-most pump MIGHT get starved...if this is the case, I'll fill the the two in the stern then the two up forward.

Wes

SilverStoneFD · Outlaw Joined: 19 Aug 2005 Posts: 145 City: Fallon

Wes,
Looks like the project is coming along well. Let me know when you need ryan and I to come over and help out.

LJ

MX21 · Outlaw Joined: 11 Dec 2003 Posts: 143 City: Austin

Looks familiar - I quit keeping up with parts and prices Shocked

MX21 · Outlaw Joined: 11 Dec 2003 Posts: 143 City: Austin

Sorry - double post

CP3 · Outlaw Joined: 01 Dec 2005 Posts: 219 City: SC

Where did you get those open and close valves. How big are they?

MX21 · Outlaw Joined: 11 Dec 2003 Posts: 143 City: Austin

Flow-rite

SilverStoneFD · Outlaw Joined: 19 Aug 2005 Posts: 145 City: Fallon

Here are some pictures of Wes's wake from this weekend. We tested the ballast for the first time.

LJ

wesgardner · Posted: Apr 17, 2006 5:30 am Post subject:

Hey All,

The fill times are VERY quick – the front sacs fill in 1 minute 45 seconds – they are 600 lbs. sacs. The rear ones fill in about 2 and a half minutes, they are 700 lbs sacs. The front ones since they are so low in the boat, fill by themselves without a pump, just not very quickly. I’ll need to cut an access port in the floor so I can operate the main valve. I also need to mess with the position of the “drain” pumps as they don’t readily pick up the water requiring someone to push down on the sac to force water against the pump…perhaps turning the sac a bit to the side will do.

Post Mortum – I would definitely get sacs with a top fill and bottom drain if you’re going with aerator pumps…I’ve not tried cutting in my own “ports” but I understand it can be done with some 5200 and a thru-hull – I might try it this season when time allows.

wesgardner · Posted: Apr 17, 2006 5:33 am Post subject:

Here's a surf wake pic...I think we had just the starboard sac full....could still use more weight, me thinks

goodfoot00 · Newbie Joined: 26 Jul 2005 Posts: 3 City: Noblesville

I was curious, are the check valves working out ok for you? I'm about to install the same system as was wondering where you installed them. Would you do anything differently?

Thanks

wesgardner · Posted: May 08, 2006 8:22 am Post subject:

Hey goodfoot00,

The check valves are installed just after each pump and seem to work well, I used pool vacuum hose for some of the "fill" lines as it appeared to be very flexible, it is however, difficult to get a leak-free seal on it (still in process)

Additionally, when my sacs get full, water merely runs out the "drain" thruhulls giving us an indication without rupturing the sac...actually the front ones pop the ski locker open when they get full then you just hit the "empty" switch for a couple seconds...

wesgardner · Posted: May 09, 2006 10:12 am Post subject:

Here are some more pics of my ballast/plumbing nightmare

The first one shows the 1 1/2" thruhull and bronze "L" going into the 1 1/2" PVC ball valve. From there it runs under the two 1 1/4" lines for the two forward sacs. You can see one of the check valves in-line just to the left of the small red-handled valve (heater shut-off) The manifold then turns a 90 and is increased to 2" and heads back under the motor - see lower pic.

The lower pic shows three Tsunami 1200's, the last one you can't see as it's behind the bilge blower hose.

goodfoot00 · Newbie Joined: 26 Jul 2005 Posts: 3 City: Noblesville

Wes, Thanks for all the info, this has been very helpful. Another couple of questions.

On your fill times, is that with all four pumps running? It seems like 1.5" thru hull would not be large enough to feed all four at once.

Do your fat sacks have the 3/4 inch fitting or are they larger?

Is there a reason you went with the 1.5" thru hull, then a 2" manifold? It's seems like a 1.5" manifold would be all that is necessary, am I missing something?

Again, thanks for the help and patience with my questions.

wesgardner · Posted: May 18, 2006 10:08 am Post subject:

Hey goodfoot00,

The sacs have the standard fitting, the hose size is 1 1/4" until it gets to the sacs...I think I can fill all at once...hmmm, I'll try this weekend, either way, it's quite fast...my thinking was the last pump might get starved, hence the larger manifold...another factor, my pumps are below the waterline so there's a certain amount of positive pressure allowing the front sacs to fill by themselves, the pumps just speed things up...

The pic is the forward sac arrangement...you can just see the blue hose near the left of the pic with a homemade fitting into the actual sac...this is the middle sac (the pump right next to the fitting is the drain pump for the forward sac), the forward sac's fill hose is up under the floor further to your left...sorry for not rotating the pic
Wes