subjekt or substance

classik5onit · Criminal Joined: 07 Jun 2005 Posts: 87 City: Arnold

im lookin to buy one of these boards. the thing is people say the subjekt is really loose. ive ridin a hyperlite 3DS and it has the same fin configuration and i dint have a prob with it . rode a fusion this week and liked it. it seems similar to the substance. dint get to try my friends fish after i strained a ligament in my ankle. if anyone has ridin one or these two boards put in your 2 cents

shagman · Criminal Joined: 11 Sep 2003 Posts: 92

Search it man, tons of threads on this.

Sinkoumn · Posted: Oct 07, 2005 5:52 pm Post subject:

I've ridden both, and wasn't at all impressed with the substance. The substance just seemed way too slow, and felt like you had to really dig for a decent cut because of the drag of the board in the water. The pop of the Subjekt throws you more for a vertical, and the substance just throws you farther into the flats. So it's basically you need to figure out what you're looking for in a board.

I'd say ride them both, just to get the idea for the feel.

thane_dogg · Outlaw Joined: 24 Jan 2003 Posts: 187 City: Corona

I'm gonna have to disagree with Sinkoumn. With my experience, I love the substance. I liked the subjekt also but I couldn't get used to the abrupt switch from locked in, to not locked when the fins would break loose. With the substance, there's a broader range between locked and sliding. If you liked the fusion, you will love the substance. The substance is just an easier to ride fusion.

classik5onit · Criminal Joined: 07 Jun 2005 Posts: 87 City: Arnold

only thing im worried about the subjekt is it being too loose and me not liking it. ive ridin the hyperlite 3DS and that has the same fin configuration and i liked it

Enzoborder230 · Posted: Oct 08, 2005 6:34 am Post subject:

get the fish, it will be well worth it
the fish is incredible

shaggyboarder · Posted: Oct 08, 2005 7:11 am Post subject:

I was riding the substance and I just recently got a subjekt id say if your worried about a board being to loose dont get the subjekt... with the substance if you want a looser feel take the middle fin out and, if its to loose keep the fin in.

Blindside_137 · Posted: Oct 08, 2005 9:14 am Post subject:

Enzoborder230, but i've heard the fish is a love it or hate board and due to its different features it can be hard to get used to. but it would be fun to carve the **** out of the board though Very Happy

classik5onit · Criminal Joined: 07 Jun 2005 Posts: 87 City: Arnold

cept im 6' 3" so i duno bout the fish... might be too small. although i wakeskate too and i ride that finless so i prob like a loose feeling board. ive just never rode a loose wakeboard so i duno

Ocean Rider · Wakeboarder.Commie Joined: 24 Jun 2003 Posts: 1597

I'm 6'3'' and have no problem with a 129 fish...

both of those boards have lots of pop, but have totally different styles... the subjekt is very aggressive, fast edge into the wake... the substance is mellow, lots of straight up pop, slow/tail heavy/bent knee riding...

I personally like both, they both have pros and cons but I would have to say i liked the substance the most...

seedickride · Criminal Joined: 12 Jan 2003 Posts: 97 City: Munich, ND

Personal preference is so different from one person to another, along with the way a board is described. I rode the Subjekt for the first half of the summer, as I like the more aggressive/faster cut vs. the Substance. The last half of the summer, I rode the Fish, which I like even better because of the kick off the wake and easy spinning. I really haven't felt that the Subjekt is very loose. When you get it on edge, it cuts hard. The Substance without the center fin, though, for me, seems pretty loose in comparison to both the Subjekt and the Fish. The Fish actually seems slightly easier to break free on the water than the Subjekt does. The only downside of the Fish in my opinion is it can be a bit difficult to handle in choppy water conditions.

classik5onit · Criminal Joined: 07 Jun 2005 Posts: 87 City: Arnold

i would get a fish but... ive only been riding for a year now and just started to throw inverts. the fish short length might be a little too advanced for me and could gimme a hard time on some landings.

seedickride · Criminal Joined: 12 Jan 2003 Posts: 97 City: Munich, ND

If you're starting to throw inverts, the Fish isn't beyond your riding capabilities. Keep in mind that the Fish is intended to be ridden 10 cm shorter than what you'd normally ride due to the extra width of the board. I'm 6'2", and first rode the 129, and really noticed how short it was, and felt like I was having a little trouble with my landings, but when I switched over to the 133, I didn't have that feeling anymore. There's also the 137 available for '06 now, too. I'm 195lbs. on the 133, and feel it's the right size for me, if that helps you any.

DavidHoff · Posted: Oct 09, 2005 3:31 pm Post subject:

If your just learning, you'll have a much easier time on Substance or Subjekt. Alot of people I know ride the Fish and like it, but they say it's one of those boards that amazing If you are throwing tricks consistent, but not a great board to learn new stuff on.

Thomas P. · Addict Joined: 16 Feb 2003 Posts: 717

the speed of boards on the water is relative and preference. if you think the substance is slow, try riding the fusion or the cwb transcend. that will give you a new meaning of slow. if youre used to the subjekt or trip, yes, then the substance might be a little slower. once again it all comes down to personal preference. i dont think the change from a 3ds will be that drastic in either direction. just make sure you like these new rides first.

Ocean Rider · Wakeboarder.Commie Joined: 24 Jun 2003 Posts: 1597

The fish is a fun board to mess with but I dont belive its the best choice to use as a full time riding board

seedickride · Criminal Joined: 12 Jan 2003 Posts: 97 City: Munich, ND

Ocean Rider- I have to disagree with you. Why do you say that? Yes, it has a different feel to it from a "standard" board design, but it doesn't do anything funky that is detrimental to someone's riding experience on a daily basis once you get used to it after a couple rides. Are you saying that based on your personal experience with the board? I'm curious to hear why...

classik5onit · Criminal Joined: 07 Jun 2005 Posts: 87 City: Arnold

yeha i like a fast board and a loose feel. sounds like the subjekt will be good. ive rode the fusion and was killin it on that but i want a faster board.

seedickride · Criminal Joined: 12 Jan 2003 Posts: 97 City: Munich, ND

From what you describe, I think you'd really like the Subjekt. I've got my 04 Subjekt 141 that's in really good condition available, if you're interested (I sold my Fish 133 already).

shaggyboarder · Posted: Oct 10, 2005 5:28 pm Post subject:

ive been getting used to the subjekt lately and i have to say the landings are much softer than the substance imo

Ocean Rider · Wakeboarder.Commie Joined: 24 Jun 2003 Posts: 1597

seedickride, ok let me re-phase my statement... for me, the fish isn't good to use as my regular riding board...

my style is different and I need different features from a board than what the fish offers... maybe the fish fits everything someone else wants... I know 3 people who ride the fish as there main board and they love it...

dont get me wrong... the fish is fun, but I would rather be riding a team or substance as a main board than the fish

classik5onit · Criminal Joined: 07 Jun 2005 Posts: 87 City: Arnold

seedickride, so why did you sell your fish?. i can get a subjekt 133 for $250 brand new. i would ride a 137. but if i were to get that i dont see why i wouldnt get a fish 133. would the 4 cm really be that big ofa difference?

i ride a hyperlite state 140. it cracked so i got a brand new one im trying to sell. i like the board but it seems to have too wide ofa skill level range and im looking for a more strictly advanced board. its also doesnt have the speed im looking for ina board

seedickride · Criminal Joined: 12 Jan 2003 Posts: 97 City: Munich, ND

classik5onit- I sold my Fish since my season is over up here in North Dakota (had a foot of snow last week!), and I'll just be getting new equipment for next year. That's one benefit of having your own wakeboard shop. The thing you have to keep in mind is the width of the board, and not just the length. The Fish 133 is 18.2 inches wide, while the Subjekt 133 is 16.6 inches wide. The Fish has quite a bit more surface area to support your weight than the Subjekt with the same length. I'm sure you could ride the Subjekt 133, but I'd have to guess that you'd notice the landings would feel pretty hard, and it might not pop as well as you'd like, all due to a lack of surface area keeping you up on top of the water.

Ocean Rider- OK, now I understand. That's why, if at all possible, everyone needs to demo before they buy if they can. Different strokes for different folks, as they say.

classik5onit · Criminal Joined: 07 Jun 2005 Posts: 87 City: Arnold

seedickride, ive narrowed it down to the fish 133 or subjekt 137. gotta sleep on it. both aggressive boards with alot of straight up pop cept ones 4 cm shorter but wider. you think the 4cm will make that big ofa difference?

seedickride · Criminal Joined: 12 Jan 2003 Posts: 97 City: Munich, ND

The Fish will definitely have the most explosive straight up pop between the two. In fact, it might take a couple rides to get used to it. The first time I rode it, my heelside backroll turned into a 1 1/2 heelside backroll, which I've never done before. Shocked

I rode the Subjekt 141, so it was definitely noticeable when I was spinning how much easier it was on the Fish. I stomped my toeside 540 on my first try on the Fish, while I really struggled to land that trick on the Subjekt. You'd probably notice the difference in length more if you went with the Fish 129 instead of the 133. If you think that the Subjekt 137 is the right size for you, you really could go with the Fish 129. I guess it depends a bit on what your riding goals are for the board that you end up buying. If you want a board that's really aggressive on edge, then I'd say the Subjekt is the better choice. If you want massive vertical kick off the wake, then the Fish would be the best (but the Subjekt has excellent kick, too). If you ride in choppy water a lot, then I'd say to go with the Subjekt. Hopefully this helps...

Ocean Rider · Wakeboarder.Commie Joined: 24 Jun 2003 Posts: 1597

classik5onit, the 133 is way to big for you... if your looking into the subjekt 137 then you should also be looking into the 129 fish

10 cm shorter than a regular board

classik5onit · Criminal Joined: 07 Jun 2005 Posts: 87 City: Arnold

Ocean Rider, i dont see how that is possible? im guessing your saying that becuase of the width of the fish.

Ocean Rider · Wakeboarder.Commie Joined: 24 Jun 2003 Posts: 1597

classik5onit, what dont you see possible.... the fish should be sized 10 cm. SHORTER than a normal riding board

I ride a 138 substance, hense I would ride a 129 fish...

the 133 is made for really big dudes... ive riden it and the 129 is much better

AbsoluteRida · Outlaw Joined: 24 May 2004 Posts: 156 City: Atl

How does the absolute without a center fin compare to the subjekt and Substance????Speed/pop I hear great things about these boards but i also want to look into the new watson and (shane)bonifay boards

classik5onit · Criminal Joined: 07 Jun 2005 Posts: 87 City: Arnold

Ocean Rider, yeah i get it now i was confused fora sec then my buddy explained it to me.

classik5onit · Criminal Joined: 07 Jun 2005 Posts: 87 City: Arnold

now i just need to sell one of my other boards so i can buy it. im selling a brand new never used still in the wrapping 05 hyperlite state for $300 O.B.O. and a hardly used 04 hyperlite motive 140 for $100.

WakeCEO · Newbie Joined: 05 Oct 2005 Posts: 18

Man go with the Substance 138. I think it'd be perfect for your size and the way you describe what you like.

With a center fin the Substance tracks well. I dont agree with the people that say the Substance is slow. It rides quicker than many of the other similar 3-stage boards I've been on.

I have heard bad things from other people on the Subjekt but I have never ridden it so I cannot really comment on that. I'd go with the Subtance before the Fish . Like someone stated above...many either love or hate the Fish because of how different it rides and it is a little bit harder to get used to in rough water conditions IMO.

classik5onit · Criminal Joined: 07 Jun 2005 Posts: 87 City: Arnold

WakeCEO, well i currently ride a hyperlite state which is sorta similar to the substance( 3 stage and center fin) and i have also ridin a hyperlite 3DS which is similar to the subjekt ( 4 channel fins no center fin) and i noticed a big difference in speed between the two. i liked the speed of the 3DS which in turn gave me a better pop.

WakeCEO · Newbie Joined: 05 Oct 2005 Posts: 18

The State is actually a hybrif. It is continuous and 3-stage. Different heel to toe edge. It will feel a little faster and have less pop on the continuous side.

The 3DS is the fastest Hype board (but still relatively slow). I actually really like the 3DS. I honestly think the Substance is just as fast as the 3DS but could just be me.

wtbamoomba · Addict Joined: 10 Sep 2003 Posts: 808 City: raleigh

im going to disagree with the statement that the substance is just as fast as the subjekt... i have ridden both, and i chose the subjekt because it was just so unbelievably fast, while the substance seemed like it was just crawling through the water even without the center fin... i think you should go with the subjekt... incredible pop and loads of speed on edge.. its really the best board i have ever ridden