Tower vs. No Tower

Massey2718 · Newbie Joined: 02 Aug 2005 Posts: 3 City: New England

Hey, I was thinking about trying a backflip my next time out, but do not have a tower. I have been told by some people not to even attempt it without a tower, and some say go for it. Is it worth trying it without one, even if I get good air without one?

intotheflats · Posted: Aug 15, 2005 7:03 pm Post subject:

If you can't do it without a tower, you won't be able to do it with one either.

Go for it. A tower won't make a difference

KAPtiN_InSaNo · Newbie Joined: 16 Aug 2005 Posts: 6

stuff u have to tell me how to get enough pop to do a back flip towerless

intotheflats · Posted: Aug 16, 2005 11:50 am Post subject:

Buddybud · Outlaw Joined: 25 Nov 2004 Posts: 106 City: Ottawa

intotheflats,

Then what is the purpose of a tower?

intotheflats · Posted: Aug 16, 2005 12:07 pm Post subject:

A tower stops the boat from pulling you down. So you stay up in the air longer. Not considerably longer though. The amount of air you get off the wake has everything to do with how you leave the wake. Not the tower. Once you are in the air, a tower will help you "float" a little longer in the air. It won't get you any higher though.

Don't get me wrong, a tower is a great thing and they are helpful for sure. But a tower won't help you learn a new trick, nor can you blame bad riding on not having a tower. If you can't land a trick without a tower, you won't with one either.

Buddybud · Outlaw Joined: 25 Nov 2004 Posts: 106 City: Ottawa

intotheflats,

That makes sense. What's you opinion on wake size in terms of getting more air? I understand that technique is definitely the most important part of getting air but how much of an influence do you think wake size has?

intotheflats · Posted: Aug 16, 2005 12:22 pm Post subject:

A lot. Someone hitting a 3 foot high wake incorrectly will probably get more air than someone hitting a 1.5 foot wake with the proper technique. But its also not just about size, theres shape and hardness to consider too.

For instance, I have ridden behind a super air nautique and a supra launch ssv. The nautique had a bigger wake but the launch was a bit harder with a little more lip(which I like). Therefore I ride better behind the launch because the wake suits my style of riding a little better

Greg Smith · Posted: Aug 16, 2005 8:02 pm Post subject:

IntoTheFlats, are you saying raley based tricks are just as easy without a tower?

intotheflats · Posted: Aug 16, 2005 8:10 pm Post subject:

They are easier to take bigger with a tower, but a tower will not make it possible to do a raley if you can't otherwise. I learned raley's behind a 19ft I/O with 700lbs and no tower. It is all about technique, not towers

Greg Smith · Posted: Aug 22, 2005 7:30 pm Post subject: raley no tower

IntoTheFlats, I've built a small kicker at my cottage. I'm going to get to try it for the first time this weekend. The reason I built it is because the boat I ride behind up there has no tower/pole and no wake. It's basically a fishing boat. Would this be a good thing to learn raleys on or no? I can do them quite easily on the trampoliine.. I dont know if that helps or not.

KooJo_MoFo · Newbie Joined: 22 Aug 2005 Posts: 19 City: Blythe

I disagree... I think towers make a world of a difference!! I suggest learning behind a wakeboarding boat... and then go to your towerless small-waked boat and try it.

I learned how to wakeboard behind a 21' Tahiti Jet Boat... w/ jus' a bit more wake than a waverunner Smile

I never pulled off any tricks.

Behind my buddies Tige 20i... holy stuff... I sky. I did my first tantrum yesterday Smile

Jim M · Wakeboarder.com Freak Joined: 17 Jan 2003 Posts: 2933

You couldn't get air behind a jet boat? Rolling Eyes

Thats the wake making the difference, not the tower. I agree 100% with what intotheflats said.

A tower isnt going to change the way you leave the wake. It isnt going to pull you 'upwards' into the air. It by no means does either one of these two things. It just gives you a more natural pull at the peak of your jump between the wakes instead of giving you a downwards tug.

KooJo_MoFo · Newbie Joined: 22 Aug 2005 Posts: 19 City: Blythe

Simple physics.

Your jump will be lower w/ the more downforce that is put on you.

The tower, which has the rope up above your head, completely helps you get into the air.

No tower, rope below your waist, of course you won't be able to jump as high.

No question about it, it's obvious... why even argue?

Stand up and jump w/o holding a 15 pound weight, and then jump holding one. It's a lot like that Smile

AirProfile · Addict Joined: 17 Aug 2004 Posts: 602 City: Brookfield

Blake · Posted: Aug 31, 2005 11:23 pm Post subject:

I ride behind a SAN with a tower, and a Sea Ray without a tower... From my years of experience, I will tell you this, a tower has done little for me aside from giving me a better vantage to film from... People say, "oh, it makes getting up out of the water so much easier", and I have to disagree to a point. The only difference is your hole shot. If you struggle to get up period, then it might give you better confidence... Thats about it. As for the pull down that you speak of KooJo_MoFo, you are dead wrong. One wont experience this downward pull when they are only 3 feet in the air. Both my buddy and I are working on getting sponsored at the moment, and he goes higher than me off my i/o than I can off the SAN.. What does that mean? Our riding styles are completely different, and he throws more spins than I do, and I throw more sliders into my runs... Your analogy really compares apples to oranges though... As intotheflats has well argued his point, height is base soley on technique and wake shape. I can personally tell you, an boat with 1100 lbs of ballast will do more for your riding or "pop" than the same boat with a tower... Thats physics for you. Forget the downward pull notion that these baffoons stick into your head, and listen to people with riding experience for a moment. Chances are you are the same guy throwing down surface 180's and w2w 3's on a towered i/o fvcking up the water during my morning sets, and tubing during me evening sets.. You dont know what the hell you are talking about, so therefor you should just keep your mouth shut.. YOUR FIRED!!! AirProfile, I really dislike this guy for some odd reason, (an internet grudge Laughing

) but he too is correct...

EDIT: Oh hell AirProfile, I reread your post and you disappointed me... You are now only half way correct... Rolling Eyes

Greg Smith · Posted: Sep 12, 2005 9:27 am Post subject:

Hey man. My buddy has got tantrums down. We don't have a tower. He just takes a really wide cut at the wake and he does it no problem. A tower does make a bit of a difference but the size of the wake is what you should be more concerned with I think. If it's a half decent wake, go for it. If its like a fishing boat, your gonna have a harder time obviously. Also just to let you know, this weekend I just landed my first heelside frontside 540. It was on a 17 foot bowrider. Decent wake. No tower or pole though.

jason2454 · Outlaw Joined: 18 Feb 2005 Posts: 240 City: austin

iunno if this makes sense or anything and i havent tryed it, just seen vids, but when you attach a tube to a tower they seem to Air waaaay higher than if u attach a tube to the transom tow point. A year ago we had a 19 ft i/o without a tower and the wake was pretty big suprisingly. I could do some inverts and stuff but on the 05 bu we have now the biggest thing i noticed was not having to rush all my tricks and they can be thrown a lot bigger. Granted the wake is nicer, so im not sure if its the tower or not. Pretty sure it helps though.

Blake · Posted: Sep 12, 2005 9:56 pm Post subject:

jason2454, It does nothing man in reguards to actual height of a pop... It might allow you a split second longer for hang time. If you are having trouble getting good height, you also dont need to worry about getting pulled down either. Like Greg Smith clearly stated, worry about your wake more. 500 dollars worth of ballast should/will take you further than 1000 buck in a tower. I have the luxory of riding behind my fathers SAN full of ballast with a tower, and a i/o, no tower, and now ballast! The wake makes much more of a difference then anything. I can still get 4' of air with a few people on the boat, 10' cuts and no tower... Its all about the form!

QNev · Posted: Sep 13, 2005 9:10 pm Post subject:

I learned tatties behind a ski-nautique without a tower. You just need to learn to trip and it'll help you throw yourself around.

russell21 · Newbie Joined: 11 Aug 2005 Posts: 40

A tower has NO effect on how much pop you get off the wake. The amount of pop you get is all about technique and the wake. I learned how to do almost everything I know without a tower.

A TOWER WILL NOT MAKE YOU A BETTER RIDER.

by: Intheflats

A tower will most definately make u a better rider lol.
Why would they have them in the first place. Towers are there to serve lots of purposes, it does help your pop a little bit cause it pulls you off the wake giving you and advantage over just off the back of the boat. But if you don't have the technique in the first place then you wont magically get pop with a tower

NHWakeRider · Criminal Joined: 02 Aug 2005 Posts: 93

I was told a backflip was not a trick in wakeboarding?

ballywho · Wakeboarder.Commie Joined: 05 Feb 2005 Posts: 1725

NHWakerider, its not. There's tantrums and backrolls. Good observasion.

Russel21, a tower DOES NOT GIVE YOU ANY POP!!! It gives you hang time. It will NOT improve your riding unless you are ver very very very very very very close to landing the trick. 99.99999999999999999999% of the time it wont do crap. It will give you more hang time so you can make it more stylish.
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1990 recession

mattroth54 · Newbie Joined: 16 Apr 2005 Posts: 25 City: Plainfield

I/O, no tower, no equipment excuses, 200lbs. I guess this is plenty of air for an invert. Maybe I'll try one when I find some balls.

randomhero · Outlaw Joined: 29 Mar 2004 Posts: 153 City: Yuba City

r u clearing the wake on those photos?? If I were you I'd wait till i was a little more comfortable with clearing the wake, before you start thinking about going up side down. Try it if u want, but landing on your head at ~22mph plus the speed u cut into the wake at, isnt that enjoyable. Progression is much slower/painful if u skip crucial steps in the learning process.

mattroth54 · Newbie Joined: 16 Apr 2005 Posts: 25 City: Plainfield

I don't think I was clearing the wake at that point, but I can clear it pretty consistantly now. This is my first full summer wakeboarding; those pics were taken about halfway through the summer. I just read some of the trick tips on the forum and think I've got the idea of how to do a tantrum, but we'll see if I've got the cahunas next time I get out.

K-wood Kid · Posted: Sep 23, 2005 2:39 pm Post subject:

Hey atleast you have good style

wtbamoomba · Addict Joined: 10 Sep 2003 Posts: 808 City: raleigh

that doesnt look like an io wake...

ballywho · Wakeboarder.Commie Joined: 05 Feb 2005 Posts: 1725

Yes it does, look at the first pic. There is exaust in the prop wash. Also look at how wide the wake is directly off the stern of the boat.
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mattroth54 · Newbie Joined: 16 Apr 2005 Posts: 25 City: Plainfield

ballywho · Wakeboarder.Commie Joined: 05 Feb 2005 Posts: 1725

I think it was a compliment, insinuating that it looked like an inboard.
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|}addyFatSac|{s · Newbie Joined: 28 Sep 2005 Posts: 7 City: Saint Petersburg

Blake, Whats the problem with people out throwin w2w 360's,

1st of all- at some pont in your riding you were out doing the same thing, its part of the learning process. Smile

2nd of all- I wil admit the tubers are pretty obnoxious when they are oblivious to your glass and they zoom right by you when they could be off in the chop somewhere. You cant tell me that you have not ever tubed and enjoyed it, so you can blame them totally. Cool

3rdly One thing you can take comfort in is knowing that none of the people who are here posting are the jack asses on jetskis following you around all day and jumping your wake, now those people suck. Evil or Very Mad

and btw "you don't own the water....It's Gods water" had to bust out a lil supertroopers on ya

peace

Mackr0s · Criminal Joined: 14 Sep 2005 Posts: 84 City: Plano, TX

A tower is great for storage.

intotheflats · Posted: Sep 29, 2005 9:24 pm Post subject:

kuehn · Outlaw Joined: 21 Sep 2003 Posts: 186 City: London. UK

Check out old videos with the likes of necrasson, scot, gator ect they didnt have towers or skylons. They didnt have that much hang time either.

key difference is HANG TIME. as for pop i would say a tower is rock solid maximising the energy generated at the top of the wake thus giving you lift. Spongy pylons i dont like but i used to have no choice. A tower is bit more expensive than getting a non stretch rope! Cool

lets face it they look soooo pretty. Very Happy