ballast, and tons of it

[bhamglassman]

So I've got a Moomba Outback, warning on boat says capacity is like 10 people or 1500 pounds. I see other boats with tons (literally) of ballast and surely the manufacturer doesnt permit that much weight.
So, I've been wanting to put a 1200pound launch pad sofa in the back and then balance the front with people or some fat sacs. If I have 2000 pounds in my boat when it says to hold it to 1500 is that a big prob? If so should I just get 580 pound sac to throw int he back and call it a day?

[markymarc]

You'll be fine... its a "recomandation". My xstar says 1750 or something and now with sacs we have about 2000 lbs plus usually between 3-7 people
Make sure to weight the boat with the 60/40 rule.... (40 percent of the weight in the front and 60% in the rear)

[dangerboone]

Just to let you know, its illegal in some states, so make sure theres no placards on any of the ballasts saying how heavy they are. WF can cite you for being overloaded

[Firefightersmurf]

I was a little curious about the USCG placard, so I did a little research on the web, and found this passage on uscgboating.org

"There are no Coast Guard regulations against exceeding the safe loading capacity, however, there may be State regulations or restrictions from your insurance company which prohibit this. There is a Coast Guard regulation that gives Coast Guard Boarding Officers the power to terminate the use of a boat (send it back to shore) if, in the judgment of the Boarding Officer, the boat is overloaded. There is no fine for this, unless the operator refuses the Boarding Officer's order. We certainly hope that you will abide by the rating, as overloading may lead to capsizing or swamping of the boat."

[dangerboone]

Firefightersmurf:There is a Coast Guard regulation that gives Coast Guard Boarding Officers the power to terminate the use of a boat (send it back to shore) if, in the judgment of the Boarding Officer, the boat is overloaded. There is no fine for this, unless the operator refuses the Boarding Officer's order.

A few months ago in Louisiana I got a ticket for being overloaded, I was 1person over capacity. Just check local laws

[Firefightersmurf]

dangerboone You are correct, that passage, does state that there may be state regulations. I did just cut and past it.

[dangerboone]

gotcha.. misunderstood what you were gettin at.

[joedirt00]

[wotan2525]

I've heard before that ballast shouldn't be counted against that weight. Think about it.... the ballast is usually water, which FLOATS! Having 2000 lbs of water is not going to make your boat any more likely to sink than it would without it in there. The 2000 lb s is usually 2000 lbs of stuff that will make your boat sink.

Just what i've heard before....

[pooser]

wotan2525, youre pretty misinformed. how can water float? what, do we need a science lesson here? for something to float it has to be less dense than the fluid it is going to float in. water has the same density as water, there for it cannot float. Which is heavier 2000 lbs of lead or 2000 lbs of water, thats right they both weigh the same amount and can both possiby sink a boat.

[BelmontWake]

The Headless Chicken, throw a filled fat sac in the water and it WILL float. Not only if it is full to bursting, but even if there is some space, that space is air which helps it float. There is less chance of your boat sinking if you use water weight over lead, cement, or even people ballast. So it really isn't that bad to overweigh your boat.

And about density needing to be less than the fluid it's in to sink, that's true, but water is neutral bouyant, meaning it neither sinks or floats. Meaning it would act as water (slowly drifting around).

[Entrust Clothing]

i have an outback as well, i run 2 350lb sacs plus like 5-6 people on the boat, there is one guy on here i saw that has an outback that runs the 1200lb couch in the rear and a 600lb bag in the front

[ballywho]

belmontwake, water will float, IN WATER! However when you weigh a boat the weight s above the waterline. Hence your boat will still sink. Think abut this, if your boat fills completely with water what happens? IT SINKS! This with happen if the water is in a fat sac or not. There is absolutely no difference between weighting your boat with water or with lead.
_________________
pot joint

[Junkee]

[pooser]

BelmontWake, i like to burp my fat sac so there is no air in it and it is completely full of water. the thing is weight, regardless of the material, sinks your boat lower in the water and once you get to the point where water starts coming in over the sides your screwed no matter what type of wight you have in there. unless of course its only people ballast and you can get everyone to jump over really quick. i just say be careful if youre going to weight your boat over the limit. im sure that limit is there for safely operating in any condition including high speeds in large swells. i have seen many boats well over the limit and they were fine and i dont see how "the man" can weigh all your stuff to tell if youre over the limit. just try to keep the rubrail dry.

[jansonator09]

i only fill my fat sacs when i am riding, and when im riding it is usually calm so i do not think that I will sink if i go over the thing. Plus, boats usually do not sink so its no big deal.

[chavez]

ballywho, actually there is.

Water ballast is neutrally buoyant, which means if your boat takes on water and begins to sink, the water ballast will have no effect on it. If your boat has sufficient positive buoyancy (floatation foam), it will not continue to sink due to water ballast as it is neutrally buoyant, although it may sink due to other items on the boat - engine, stuff, etc.

Lead ballast is negatively buoyant, and if your boat begins to sink due to overloading with it, it will continue to sink given that it's negative buoyancy outweighs the boat's positive buoyancy.

Ya dig?

[ballywho]

Granted, leadballast may make you sink faster once your under water but sunk is sunk. Either way, I seriously doubt that you ride without any engine or gear . Also wih power boats (especially inboards) once the exaust pipe is colpletely submerged (so the engine is below the water line) you will be amazed how fast they sink, balast or not.
_________________
grand daddy purple seeds

[jansonator09]

i have a friend who has a mastercraft X-30 and they some how ruined their boat so like the whole back end was almost underwater. The boat did not sink and works fine now.

[ballywho]

[chavez]

ballywho, this is why many manufacturers use foam floatation to create positive buoyancy.

Sunk is not sunk in that respect. Sure, the boat will be completely swamped, but it probably won't go all the way to the bottom if sufficient positive buoyancy is in place.

The bottom line is, once the boat is swamped, bags/sacs have little to no effect as they become neutrally buoyant.

[jansonator09]

shut up. You know what i mean

[jansonator09]

ballywho, i also said that it was almost sunk not completely sunk. and like chavez said boat manufacturers make their boats so if stuff happens to them they will float.

[ballywho]

jasonator09, I was joking, sorry. My sarcasm has been off today apparently.

Chavez, if everything (the ski locker, the bilge, ect.) fills with water I don't think ,correct me if I'm wrong, that the boat will have enough positive flotation.
_________________
recession history

[jklein]

[chavez]

ballywho, does water in water sink?

The answer is no. Once the boat goes from positive to neutral to negative, there is no stopping it. The water swamping the boat is the catalyst, but it is the negatively buoyant 'stuff' in the boat that seal the deal.

You can pour as much water as you want into a Boston Whaler, but it won't sink. Why is that? Because there is enough positively buoyant material in the boat to keep it afloat.

[ballywho]

Yeah, I know, I owned one. That was my ballast system, just pull the plug for a while. But in a wake specific I definately don't think there's as much flotation, once again correct me if I'm wrong, as a boston whaler. They're pure foam with a thin glass shell.A SAN or malibu has alot of dead spce and a bilge ect. When you compare the weight to flotation there is no contest. I would put money that with only water I could sink any wakeboat.
_________________
recession history united states

[south]

I thought that there was a USCG law/standard these days that all boats made from a certain date must be designed not to sink even if completely swamped.

[wotan2525]

[savage3221]

chavez, I agree with you on this, though ballywho, you have some valid points. Depending on HOW MUCH "positive flotation" the boat has that Chavez speaks of, a boat should be able to be completely swamped and still be "floating" although it is considerably under the water. Although, some boats may have more weight that is not neutrally bouyant (or "negative bouyancy"), or less foam or whatnot (or lead for that matter) that may sink it in total. There are many variables in this question that would affect the way a boat would swamp or sink in this case that it would be hard to figure out a concrete answer.

>>water does not sink in water<< so although the water can weigh the boat down to be swamped, once below the water level, the water no longer is a factor, and the boat can stay where it would without that weight from the water, unlike the lead. (emphasis on what chavez said)

And bally, I agree with you that you could "sink" any wakeboat, but depending on the model (I bet that this is the case with most) you would only swamp it, so it would have to be pulled out and emptied of the water before it could float ON TOP of the water again, not to mention engine and electronic maitnance

[pooser]

an interesting article
http://www.wakeworld.com/Articles/2003/Weight.asp
uscg method for determining weight capacity.
http://www.uscgboating.org/safety/boatbuilder/safeloading/subc-5-183-33a.htm
south, and chavez, where are you getting the information that boat manufacurers put enough buoyant material into boats so that they will not sink if completely filled with water. ive had a friends boat sink to the bottom of the lake when it was only partially full (it was a shallow lake so the hull hit bottom before the boat was full of water) buoyant material is clearly not factored into the uscgs weight capacities, so im just curious where you got this info cuz it could be true. but on the other hand passing misinformation around on the internet is pretty dangerous. i dont know how many times ive heard that ncga vest will float you just not face up.

[Vampyre]

Ok, found this video on wakesurfer.com
http://209.242.151.8/boardz/Boat_On_Lead_256Kbps.wmv

[Tyler~Moore]

bhamglassman, that 1,500 is sinking weight. if you put a fat sac in the water it will float at the surface...therefore You will be fine. althought law wise. you may need to check with your state. I know our state does not count fat sacs as weight, so we wont get a ticket...although you may...With everything use common sense and you'll staty safe...

[chavez]

The Headless Chicken, I never said they did, I said some MFg's do.

To emphasize the buoyancy point, the boys from the LFTAA recently sunk their Bu to the tower (have no clue how they swamped it), and they were able to get it out and it is now in Merced being repaired.

[watsoc]

Chavez:

Does this mean that the LFTAA boys may not be making it to Denver next week. I was so looking forward to riding with those guys again this year. Tommys (local board shop) is hosting the event though so they can likely just lend them one of their BUs.