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backside frontroll vs backside frontflip

 
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Wake Pimp
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PostPosted: Apr 08, 2003 6:19 am    Post subject: backside frontroll vs backside frontflip Reply with quote

What is the difference? i have a video that I got from Wakepics called Todd-river and the guy throws about 5 or 6 frontrolls and they look relatively easy and particularly easy to spot the landing on. But I've heard that some front's are hard to spot the landing.

How do you throw a backside front (roll or flip depending on which is easier to spot)?

Can anyone clarify this for me?

Thx,
L8 Confused


Last edited by Wake Pimp on Apr 13, 2003 6:51 am; edited 4 times in total
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Jim M
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PostPosted: Apr 08, 2003 6:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

'Backside' refers to the direction of a spin, i.e. your first 180 is turning away from the boat. A frontside would be opening up to the boat, your shoulders open instead of close.

Go to the Wakeboarder.com Trick List to learn more about trick names...
http://www.wakeboarder.com/tricks/tricklist.phtml

Go to the Trick Tips section for a description on how some of the common tricks are thrown...
http://www.wakeboarder.com/tricks/tricks.phtml
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Jon
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PostPosted: Apr 08, 2003 7:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

by backside I guess he is meaning heelside. There is only a heelside frontflip and then a toeside (or frontside) front roll and toeside front flip. Toeside frontroll is like a standing front flip on a trampoline. the frontflips are kind of like cartwheels, a little hard to explain. I hope that was clear.
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J_DOGG
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PostPosted: Apr 08, 2003 8:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jim-- are these people for real?

I saw the subject of this one and was like what the F.....

You are a better man than I am for taking the time to explain the basics of the basics to people.

PEACE

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Wake Pimp
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PostPosted: Apr 08, 2003 8:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry to have wasted your precious time J Dogg. The part of the wakeboarding sub-culture that I found extremely cool was the fact that all the wakeboarders that I've personally met are very down to earth and friendly. And it didn't matter if they had a repertoire of 40 inverts or just wake-to-wake jumps, they weren't snobbish or condescending about explaining things. ie they wouldn't have delivered a back-handed insult like you just did.

I do remember reading discussions a long time ago about backside vs. heelside. My appologies for failing to remember, and yes thank you Jim for taking the time to explain the basics of the basics.
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Jim M
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PostPosted: Apr 08, 2003 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey I am glad to help, I like getting paid to sit at my desk at work and address this stuff! Wakeboarding terminology can be a beyotch, no doubt about it. I think you owe him an apology J Dogg!! Very Happy


You probably saw some heelside frontflips. They are tough inverts b/c you have to really initiate the rotation with your body, different than most inverts that are thrown naturally with the proper release off the wake. The landings have a harder impact that most inverts, most riders use a strong cut and take them out into the flats, its easy to come down front foot heavy.

Those links I posted are a great reference though, check all that stuff out.
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J_DOGG
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PostPosted: Apr 08, 2003 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I never said I was better than anyone or have a big bag o tricks....
If you were wasting my time I wouldn't have slapped you up side the head for asking a question that made completely no sense....

I want you to get it right so when others that don't know ask the same question you can correct them with proper terminology.

All I said and I said it before, people need to read more an post less!!! or have some clue on what they are asking.... if you spent more than 15 minutes on this site you would have found tons of references to basic terminology like backside, HS, TS, Front side......

You wont meet a nicer guy than me on the water Bro (except for Jim), I party down and ride wit everyone...want a pull just ask, want to learn just ask, want an answer to a question ask the right question!

PEACE

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PostPosted: Apr 08, 2003 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've seen this type of conversation a lot. I'm wondering if there should be a Wakeboard Terminology forum as well as a Trick Tips forum, so the two are separated. Then when people new to boardsports want to know what a move is called, they can go to the Terminology forum and when anyone wants help stomping a new move, they can post it in here.

And to add to what's been said, I've had a lot of friends get confused by hs mexi-backrolls, they all think it should be called a front roll. So...I just beat it into them that it's a back roll Cool
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jumalian
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PostPosted: Apr 10, 2003 9:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jim, you have to excuse J Dogg, as every terminology was known to him when he was born.
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wakeboarder_dude22
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PostPosted: Apr 11, 2003 1:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's a cool idea toothpick.
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BigTimer
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PostPosted: Apr 11, 2003 7:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyone know how to do a HS Frontroll? Tell me how.
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PostPosted: Apr 11, 2003 8:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes Bigtimer allow me to explain... Mr. Green

first you come in no your backside toeside edge, then you pop heelside and do a frontside blind 3 taht will take you into fakie position, from there all you need to do is land backside Mr. Green Laughing

Really tho I have heard some refer to a hs back roll with a frontside handlepass 3 (what I would normally just call a 'mobius') as a backside mobe. I think it has something to do with the fact that back in the day, that was the only conceivable invert with a 360 degree rotation, so they just called it a mobius - and it seems to have stuck with me Mr. Green. I don't really know how backside got pinned on there, unless of course it was just some of those uninformed commentators they put in charge a lot of the time.

Wake Pimp - the easiest way to distinguish is this

backside/frontside = always refers to spin direction

frontside - when the front of your body is the first to face the boat
backside - when your back is the first to face the boat

heelside and toeside - that's pretty obvious

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Fauker
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PostPosted: Apr 11, 2003 8:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also let me add I am not appointing myself as ultimate decider on wake terminology, but I think that's pretty consistent. Of course if I'm wrong or left something out corrections are invited..
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PostPosted: Apr 11, 2003 8:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jumalien- I never said I know all! just like I never said I have a big bag O tricks!

The terminology/knowledge I do know is cuz I have spent many hours and years reading and learning about the sport that brings passion to my life, mostly on this site. I took the time to familiarize myself with the basics before I started asking people questions. So when I asked the question it was a REAL question, not something that made completely no sense.

Detention (Murray's instructional) goes over this stuff before volume one is even half done. So back to my original point the greenest of green should know the difference between backside, frontside, HS and TS....I bet wakepimp does now...

You can't play hockey if you don't know how to lace up the skates. Learn how to lace up the skates before you ask me how to play hockey, that's what I'm getting at.

Oh and people need to read more and post less!

PEACE

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PostPosted: Apr 12, 2003 8:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My point J Dogg is you make it seem like you were born w/ the knowledge on wakeboarding terminology. Not everyone knows them. Don't be surprised if they don't. More importantly, don't be a dick to the ones that don't know. You were a beginner once, not knowing all the right terminology.
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BigTimer
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PostPosted: Apr 12, 2003 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I gotta vouch for J DOGG on this one. I've been reading his posts for like a year and a half(not always the same screen name) and he consistenly is trying to help newbies to learn the correct terminology. Many others, myself included, are pretty quick to insult or ridicule people after the 10th post on how to do a HS frontroll is asked in one week. J DOGG has a point and I am definitely in agreement with him. Read more, post less. We all realize we were once newbies and had to learn. No one is disputing that. Just asking for educated questions. The quality of posts on this forum is horrible lately. Read more, post less.

Later...
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PostPosted: Apr 12, 2003 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wah wah wah
who cares??!
Just chill y'all...
If someone's got a question, answer it, don't ridicule him

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PostPosted: Apr 13, 2003 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"The quality of posts on this forum is horrible lately. Read more, post less."

Because of posts such as yours and J Dogg, rippin' on newbies' for asking questions.

"If someone's got a question, answer it, don't ridicule him."

Excellent point, Nathan.

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JHrod
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PostPosted: Apr 13, 2003 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BigTimer wrote:
I've been reading his posts for like a year and a half(not always the same screen name) and he consistenly is trying to help newbies to learn the correct terminology.


if you mind answering the question that much why don't you just keep your insults to yourself and let someone else answer the d@mn question. By coming to these boards you are in no way forced to answer a question....like you said read more and post less--i say read more and post less insults
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PostPosted: Apr 13, 2003 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I haven't insulted anyone. What are you two talking about? My point is, there would be no need, or inspiration I should say, to insult anyone if people would just read the other posts. That's it. I like to read everyone's questions and posts and I like to share information and answer questions. It just gets very old, repetitive and a waste of time when people post the same thing over and over. That's all I am trying to say. I try not to insult or ridicule and I rarely do. Sometimes I just can't resist. Kind of like you, Josh Hrdy, with the whole rate my rap thing. Or you jumalian on this post against J DOGG. That's all I have to say about this, I don't want to take up anymore time or space with my insults...WTF?
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PostPosted: Apr 14, 2003 3:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

all i'm saying is that if people wanna post the question rather than read and u don't like.............keep quiet and away from that thread.......there are other people who won't mind answering their question

and the rap thing is just my joking around-----i'm not starting the threads and i'm not a rapper.
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PostPosted: Apr 14, 2003 3:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For the record I didn't rip him for asking a question I ripped him for asking an un educated question.

I think bigtimer and many others that have spent time on this site reading the information will agree with me on this one. If you ask a stupid question you will get stupid answer ask an educated question and you will get an educated answer.

If you READ my posts from above you would already know this.

PEACE

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Nathan Newman
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PostPosted: Apr 14, 2003 6:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

okay, a "HS Frontroll" is a mexican back roll. A mexican is basically a backroll with bad form. If you want to throw the Mexican, cut in hard, at the wake, change to your toeside edge, (like a tantrum), and try and do a front flip motion over your front shoulder. Let go with the back hand, and hold on tight, because once you land, there is usually some slack in the rope which causes you to lose the handle.

On the HS Front Flip, which is more of a cart wheel motion, cut in hard, with a little more weight on the back foot, once you hit the wake, pop off and throw your left ear to your left shoulder, (right ear to right shoulder if goofy), and keep the rope in. This trick is a bit harder than the rest because you really have to throw it, where as with a lot of tricks, (like the HS Backroll) the wake throws you into the rotation. The landing is hard to spot on this, and is a particularly hard landing, but it sure looks cool.

hope this helps...

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PostPosted: Apr 14, 2003 6:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hmm... to clarify on the mexican, by front flip motion over lead shoulder, I mean like you flip forward like a flip on a trampoline, but your turning a little bit open to the boat, just enough that you can land with the board on edge, but not enough that the rope can interfere with the rotation
does that make sense Question Exclamation
Confused

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BigTimer
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PostPosted: Apr 14, 2003 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alright, that shizzle's tight
Newman's involved, the problem's solved
No more dissin', I'll just listen
and try to learn, and not to burn
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JHrod
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PostPosted: Apr 14, 2003 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

maybe the moderator can put a sticky thread at the top of the page and explain these terms
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PostPosted: Apr 15, 2003 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big time,

you were right to not act out of spite;
but to listen to me, cuz love can set you free;
act with kindness, there's no need to diss;
knowledge is the answer, there's no need to be a terd;
so the next time you find your being a miserable, ill-mannered piece of crap;
change your attitude before your face gets a whoppin' slap
Mr. Green Mr. Green Mr. Green

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The consciousness of self is the greatest hindrance to the proper execution of all physical action.
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PostPosted: Apr 15, 2003 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Josh Hrdy wrote:
maybe the moderator can put a sticky thread at the top of the page and explain these terms


http://www.wakeboarder.com/tricks/tricklist.phtml
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JHrod
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PostPosted: Apr 16, 2003 3:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i know they have a trick list------but noobs don't
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Wake Pimp
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PostPosted: Apr 19, 2003 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow. I haven't been back in here in a while and it's become quite a popular thread.

Look, J Dogg's verbal smak down was all-good. My reaction and my response was just that it seems there was a bit of snobbery going on. Maybe us newbies should be restricted to a Newbies forum and can only enter the other forums after a certain number of posts; the experienced posters can review a newbie's posts and administer an exam prior to the newbie being authorized to post into the other forums.

Look, the only thing snobbery is gonna do is drive us newbies to other websites' forums and then those of you in the know will be free to post non-annoying, poignant, intellegent wakeboarding questions amongst yourselves. Until, of course we annoy those other forum goers and have to find another group to annoy.

I'm not saying this to brag, but I am the most experienced and best rider among my crew. I am the one that teaches people to board and brings them along, and watches them develop. I've taught probably 40 or 50 people to wakeboard over the last 5 or 6 years. I say this because you could ask any one of those 40 or 50 people and NONE of them would say I made them feel inferior or stupid while I was helping them and coaching them along. Maybe I told them backside when I should have said heelside, and maybe some of them have annoyed some of you in this forum. But this read more, post less thing is just a way of saying, "you're wasting my time"

I am one who likes instant gratification, so if I have a question - I'm gonna post it. If I screw up the terminology, let me apologize in advance. And for ignoring your snobbish response, again let me apologize in advance.

On that note, and in Jim Rome style:

WAR - D-town Pistons
WAR - Backside Mexi-Front Cartwheel

OUT!!!
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