how to get digi to look like 16 mm

Elevation · Posted: Mar 12, 2005 10:57 am Post subject: how to get digi to look like 16 mm

i am an amature filmer and have been shooting digital film for a little while now. i have been looking into 16 mm a little bit because i love that warm effect it gives the picture. i know i can get a really cheap vintage camera that will work fine but the film and processing would be the budget killer. (i could just use a digi cam to record the 16 mm film from a projector but still i dont think i have the knowledge to get into 16 mm). so my question is, is there a filter or effect that i can use to make digi film look more like 16 mm? i have adobe after effects 6.0 but have not found anything on there referring to this.

DC · Soul Rider Joined: 11 Mar 2003 Posts: 456

http://www.dvinfo.net/articles/filmlook/broadway1.php

Elevation · Posted: Mar 12, 2005 4:17 pm Post subject:

thanks man ill check it out

JamesWatts · Addict Joined: 21 Feb 2003 Posts: 685 City: Santa Monica

Media 100 Makes a plug-in bundle for affter effects that is called Final Effects, it has an "effect" to where you can change the footage to look more like film. its called Cinelook i believe

There is also a plug in for FCP that is called Magic Bullet. that can give you that warmish feel you are talking about.

Another thing would be to run the footage thew a program called "cinema tools" and convert your 29fps to 24 or 23fps

DC's link is also good information.

truth is you can never really get it. dv will always look like dv. but if you mess around with differnet combinations of things you can get some what of a close fake.

-James

jumalian · Ladies Man Joined: 12 Jan 2003 Posts: 7625 City: san diego

i've used magic bullet in premiere pro. although it helps, like JamesWatts said, you will never get it to look exactly like film.

Elevation · Posted: Mar 13, 2005 8:55 am Post subject:

jumalian, i have premier pro on my computer but have not installed it yet. do you know if there is a Magic Bullet effect on 6.5?? by the way i tried some of the things on DCs site and didnt see much of a difference. maybe i did it wrong though, im new to after effects.

JamesWatts, if only i had a mac and could use FCP

JamesWatts · Addict Joined: 21 Feb 2003 Posts: 685 City: Santa Monica

I think it also works for premier.

http://www.redgiantsoftware.com/magbulsuit.html

-James

RD · Addict Joined: 22 Apr 2003 Posts: 626 City: Discovery Bay

Most of these plugins have demo versions so I would advise experimenting before you buy. The DV format has very poor color information compared to 16mm film and there is no "magic bullet" that can put information there that isn't there to begin with (plus everytime you render video in any NLE there is some quality lost.) I think you'll find you just end up with bad looking DV. Concentrate on getting the exposure right and using the existing lighting correctly and you'll get the best the DV format has to offer.

JamesWatts · Addict Joined: 21 Feb 2003 Posts: 685 City: Santa Monica

i also found these:

http://www.nattress.com/filmEffects.htm

http://www.chv-plugins.com/film.html

I would just use magic bullet if i was you to get the color you might want.

really the only major reason to shoot wakeboarding on film besides the difference in depth of film, which no plug in can immulate. is so you can shoot it at a faster rate ie 150fps instead of DV wich is 30. so you can get ultra smooth slow motion.

Good looking DV. is better than poorly immitated film...IMO.

-James

jumalian · Ladies Man Joined: 12 Jan 2003 Posts: 7625 City: san diego

is there any way to change the settings from 30fp/s to a higher number?

JamesWatts · Addict Joined: 21 Feb 2003 Posts: 685 City: Santa Monica

Depends on what camera you have.

the new Z1u (and fx1 it think, not sure though) can shoot at 60i

and the xl2 might also.

-James

RD · Addict Joined: 22 Apr 2003 Posts: 626 City: Discovery Bay

Standard def NTSC video is locked at 29.97 frames per second, anything else wouldn't play back. 60i video is still 30 frames per second it's just scanned as 60 interlaced fields which are combined into 30 full frames (upper field plus lower field added to make one full frame). All your standard DV camcorders record in this mode. PAL video is 25 fps. Traditional film is played back at 24 fps. When you hear about cameras that record 24p or 30p (xl2, DVX100) you are talking about modes in which every frame is sampled in it's entirety rather than as 2 interlaced fields. This type of progressive video mimics film better because single frame playback has different motion blur characteristics then interlaced video playback. When it comes to slow motion film can be overcranked and exposed at say 48 fps and then when played back at 24 you've got perfect 50% slow motion. Perfect because each frame perfectly captures the image with it's associated motion blur at that particular point in time. With video each frame is replicated electronically by either software or hardware and the processor has to guess and interpolate the difference between frame 1 and frame 2. No matter how perfect the algorithms are you're never going to get a perfectly interpolated look like you will with a film frame. When it comes to HD however that are alternatives, cams such as the Panasonic Vari-Cam can record up to 60 progressive frames per second.

Elevation · Posted: Mar 14, 2005 2:04 pm Post subject:

have you guys ever seen the Girl skate video Yeah RIght! that is the sickest intro ive ever seen to any movie. how many fps you think that was??

Nephilim · Addict Joined: 09 Apr 2003 Posts: 658 City: Ephrata, WA

those first scenes were on a high speed camera i dont know what he uses but high speed cameras can shoot up to 1 million FPS atleast according to this site http://www.cordin.com/images.html the rest of the movie looks like 24fps on a 16mm im guessing... i could be absouletly wrong though

Elevation · Posted: Mar 14, 2005 7:26 pm Post subject:

Nephilim, holy crap 1 million!!?!?!?! i would really like to find out how slow the Intro was, cause that looked so siick and clean.

JamesWatts · Addict Joined: 21 Feb 2003 Posts: 685 City: Santa Monica

I belive that was shot at 200fps.

-James

Elevation · Posted: Mar 14, 2005 8:11 pm Post subject:

JamesWatts, thanks man. that is some really awesome film work. i love how smooth it looks and the colors the film has, so sweet.

do u by chance know what camera it was shot with?

89comp · Posted: Mar 16, 2005 6:44 pm Post subject:

I work with a local videographer and we shoot everything HD, 60i and get great looking DV. With Sony's new prosumer HD cam, HD is within a lot more people's grasp.

Elevation · Posted: Mar 16, 2005 6:59 pm Post subject:

89comp, 5 grand cameras are not in my grasp right now haha

89comp · Posted: Mar 16, 2005 8:02 pm Post subject:

the sony one is $3500 and you can froogle it for less...

RD · Addict Joined: 22 Apr 2003 Posts: 626 City: Discovery Bay

89comp,

Are you shooting DV with that Sony or HDV? How does the HDV footage look with lots of motion?

I've been getting lots of mags and articles talking about workflow with that new Sony - guess it's time to start reading them!

89comp · Posted: Mar 17, 2005 6:43 am Post subject:

Its HDV. With the 60i, the footage looks great with lots of motion. Of course having the hard drive space to store it all is $$$. For a 2 min. movie, we used nearly 1 TB of disk space for capturing. rendering, etc.

Elevation · Posted: Mar 17, 2005 4:10 pm Post subject:

holy crap

1 terabyte, that is insane!!! i cant imagine making a whole video like that because 2 minutes isnt long at all!!!

89comp · Posted: Mar 17, 2005 6:44 pm Post subject:

HD = cool. Cheap, no.

Elevation · Posted: Mar 17, 2005 9:40 pm Post subject:

89comp, one of these days i defenitely want to try out HD

RD · Addict Joined: 22 Apr 2003 Posts: 626 City: Discovery Bay

JamesWatts · Addict Joined: 21 Feb 2003 Posts: 685 City: Santa Monica

1tb of space....for 2 min. are u sure...... its only hdv, i dont even think 2 min of fully uncompressed HD footage is 1tb.

-James

89comp · Posted: Mar 18, 2005 5:24 am Post subject:

James - it was about 750 Mb for all the files associated with the project - capturing, rendering, motion graphics, etc.

RD · Addict Joined: 22 Apr 2003 Posts: 626 City: Discovery Bay

1000 mb = 1 gigabyte, 1000 gigabytes = 1 terrabyte

The current HDV data rates are very similar to DV so in all reality whatever your NLE can currently handle with DV it should be fine with when it comes to HDV. HDV is very compressed compared to DV which is why everyone is interested in how it handles motion. With less real information per frame the compression algorithms have to be that much better. If you get a chance I'd love to see you post say a 10- 15 second clip of a motion shot (wakeboarding would be great Smile

) at full resolution which should be under 50 mbs and doable as a download.

89comp · Posted: Mar 18, 2005 6:29 am Post subject:

RD-
Once the lake thaws I'll go shoot some wb footage with the HDcam. Give me about 6 weeks... Neutral

Josh R · Posted: Mar 18, 2005 6:23 pm Post subject:

This was an interesting quote I from DV.com:

JamesWatts · Addict Joined: 21 Feb 2003 Posts: 685 City: Santa Monica

I think what they are saying is that they wouldent recomend using the HDV footage for slow-mo, stills, or composing any more than they would recomend normal DV. it cant be any worse than DV.... can it....?

ive talked to a few people. and they say its stunning footage.

still havent seen any myslef though:(

-James

RD · Addict Joined: 22 Apr 2003 Posts: 626 City: Discovery Bay