Iran/Iraq- uh oh?

[Neognosis]

Ok, so on the radio this morning these two liberal dj's were pointing out that Iran has a Shiite theocracy, and that Iraq, though they missed the 2/3 majority, elected a majority of Shiites in their election. If you add in the Kurds, who have a history of support from Iran, you only increase the possiblity of some sort of Iran/Iraq alliance.

I'm thinking that if there's any truth to this prediction, that would be bad.

Could you picture us SUPPORTING the Sunni insurgency in a decade or two to upset this possible alliance? Man, that would be a twist.

[tommyadrian5]

At least you know the vote was fair, this is about the worst outcome to elections that could have happened.

[nashvillematt]

Especially with Iran having Nuclear Capabilities (that we gave them and helped to produce) We just may get ourselves backed into a corner that we cant get out of.....Americans are not the smartest people on the planet.

MS

[jason_ssr]

Since when does the US help ME countries obtain nuclear weapons?

[nashvillematt]

jason_ssr, We helped them to produce nuclear power for electricity if they would "promise" not to make nuclear weapons....Well after a while, they shut off the security cameras and gave us no access to the facilities.

They now have the capabilities to produce weapons.....

MS

[Neognosis]

I know we backed and helped the Shah of Iran before the Islamic Revolution, then we helped them some more on the sly during the Iran/Iraq war, and though we helped Sadam get chemical weapons, I don't believe that we helped Iran get nuclear weapons.

That would be buck-nutty off the hook.

[jason_ssr]

Im no nuclear physicist, but isnt nuclear power technology a pretty far stretch from enrichment programs and weapons building?

[Neognosis]

The Washington Post reported that the UN could find no evidence of Iran having nuclear weapons.

BUT, is it US intelligence that contradicts that? Where are we getting the idea that they do have nuke-you-ler capabilities?

[chavez]

[Wakebrad]

[chavez]

Wakebrad, I hear "The Real World - Kabul" is going to be off the hook! The women are said to remove their burkas once or twice on camera, I can't wait!!!!

[Nor*Cal]

If Iran had nukes Israel would have already struck.

I trust Israeli intelligence over American Intelligence.

[Neognosis]

[Nor*Cal]

Turkey has an islamic democracy... Is this impossible?

cameraboy, the israeli's are surgical in these matters. They do not mess around. I think they would have struck based on my knowledge of Israeli intell.

[oshensurfer]

I'm pretty sure just b/c Iraq elected a majority of Shiites they can't dominate the political process. I believe it was set up that way. The Sunnies are the ones who f-ed up by boycotting....

On Iran, I doubt they've got a true Nuke. They may have weaponized plutonium or are close to it, but they probably don't have a delivery method nor a warhead. They could however, desimate a small population rather easily. I'm crossing my fingers that Iran and North Korea are just posturing.

I definitely agree that if they did have a weapon, then Isreal would probably be scrambling the F-16's already.

[Neognosis]

[Neognosis]

[chavez]

[Nor*Cal]

cameraboy, the attacks happen but within a few days the mastermind behind the attack has been killed along with his family.

Might prove what we all fear. Terrorism cannot be stopped.

[oshensurfer]

[Neognosis]

So, let's assume that the UN, or whoever, oversees the writing of the constitution. But here in the good old US, we are considering an amendment to ban gay marriage. So what's to say that they couldn't ammend their own constitution later on? My point is that a document written by man can be changed by man.

Possibly this is just a lot of frightened speculation, but I'm skeptical about democracy when paired with a religion like Shiia Islam. (is that the right way to say it?)

[oshensurfer]

I'm not disagreeing.

[Dave W]

[jason_ssr]

I think norCal hit on an interesting concept. Can terrorism be stopped? I think the bigger question is, "when will America realize that humanity isnt evolving socially like we try to act like it is?" Terrorism isnt new, just the term is new. Maybe we should look to those who came before us as to how these rogue groups should be handled. Today, If a group were to board a moving train, hold the passengers hostage, and try to get away with taking something valuable from the train, they would be called terrorists. Back in the 1800s they were just train robbers. Why dont we have train robbers now? Do we even have any measure so stop a train robbery anymore? Would the rail companies even know how to handle it?

My point is that our percieved growth past this kind of behavior makes us ill equipped to deal with it. Humanity is still a cruel bunch even though we try to live as people who are beyond it. Maybe if we lived like humanity is still as it has always been and go to war with death and destruction in mind, maybe others would think twice about pushing our buttons.

[Dave W]

So we need to hire a new Wyatt Earp?

[Dave W]

Hmmm.... actually, jason brings up an interesting point. Comparing terrorism to the wild west leads to an interesting solution to the problem of how to stop a lot of terrorism within the United States.

Why aren't terrorists very likely to try to do something to attack Texas?

Because everybody and their grandmother is likely to be carrying a concealed firearm and is willing to use it. Loosen the gun restrictions in the country in general, offer a lot more public information campaigns about gun safety and gun use.... Make it so roughly 75% of the US population is packing heat at any given time and then bring on the terrorists. Nobody would mess with us on US soil. How do we defeat the terrorists? We make it so that the terrorists think that WE'RE the crazy ones.

Heck, even if the terrorists highjacked another jet, a barrage of small arms fire from a few hundred well armed citizens could probably bring it down before it hit anything significant.

[Neognosis]

[jason_ssr]

Dave W, well they wouldnt be able to do it with box cutters anymore, thats for sure. It makes me think of the thousands who died because a few were afraid of getting cut. I dont blame them, our society is just so sheltered from real humanity that a hijacking was shocking. I mean, isnt that what we are taught here? if someone tries to take your car, let em. if someone wants your wallet, give it to em. If you see a crime being commited, flee to safety and call those who are paid to do something about it. Americans are not equipped to handle the bad element, only a few trained individuals in blue, and a few others are.

Why cant I have nail clippers on a plane flight? Is it because I could hurt someone with them, or is it that I could threaten to hurt someone with them and my threat would actually be heeded??

[Neognosis]

People didn't do anything because they had no reason to believe that they would be flown into a building.

On the flight where that became apparent, they did do something, and the plane went down in a field instead of through the White House.

You're taught to give over your wallet because statistically, you are less likely to GET KILLED and your wallet and credit cards and ID can be replaced.

Now that we know that terrorists are likely to kill us all anyway, I'm SURE that Americans will fight back very enthusiastically.

[lcap]

[microman]

Exactly, I doubt people on board those first planes that hit the WTC had any idea of what the plan was otherwise they would've acted. Because virtually everyone today is aware of what happened on 9/11 it would be almost impossible(or we'd like to think so at least) for any terrorist group to orchestrate another attack using commerical jets.

[jason_ssr]

Like I said, I dont blame them, I know most people would just sit through the altercation assuming a peaceful outcome will occur. That is the mindset of most of us. It is a product of being sheltered from that side of humanity.

I was in a basketball game thursday night where a fight broke out. one player then threatened to go get his gun and come shoot another. At first I laughed, because I didnt know how to react to that. This gym inst in the hood, we dont fight much on the court much less threaten to shoot people. Ive been sheltered from that side of humanity so much that I didnt really think twice when he stormed out of the gym. He didnt return. Now what if he did. We were all warned, and we all saw the signs just didnt act because that kind of action is foreign to us. What should we have done? Called the cops because of his threatening words? Should we have stomped a little respect into him?

CB, I hope you are right, I hope American will now see the potential of a bad situation and act enthusiastically!

[Swass]

If everyone knows about cloak and dagger ops, they aren't very "cloak and dagger," are they? I'd say we're more involved than ever.

[chavez]

Swass, shhhhh!!!!!

[lcap]

jason_ssr,

How's this for a story. At a college party a guy crashed the party and picked a fight with a smaller guy. The homeowner told him to leave and he proceeded to hit the smaller guy.

At the time I had a non-walking cast on but got involved anyway. The guy stepped on my cast and took two swings at me. After the second, I hit him ONE time in the mouth. I knocked out 7 teeth and him in the process.

I ended up being "Prosecuted" for using "excessive force." You see, I was within the law to protect property (house), others (the kid that was being beat up) and myself (stepping on my cast and two swings). But I wasn't suppose to hit him hard enough to knock out teeth. I was taught if your going to hit him, make sure you hit him hard enough he won't get up.

I was acquitted but it cost my dad $8,500 in attorney's fees and I lost a quarter in college. Trial was during Mid-Terms.