Beheadings continue

Neognosis · Ladies Man Joined: 13 Jan 2003 Posts: 17617 City: Webster

So yesterday (?) they cut off another American's head in Iraq.

Damn.

They have another American and a Brit. still held captive. THey are saying that they will behead them if female prisoners are not released from Iraq.

What's to be done? We can't negotiate with terrorists. But how do we keep people from getting grabbed? How do we get these people back?

Can a society that isn't outraged when people cut other human beings' heads off with knives be expected to take care of an evolved concept like democracy?

Leggester · Posted: Sep 21, 2004 6:02 am Post subject:

What's to be done?

Well, if we had the balls ( US citizens in general ), I'd say add 40K troops (HA!) and start like this.

Surround a town/city. No exit, no entry. Perform door to door search. Capture/kill anyone associated with terrorist - even their families.

Next town/city and on down the line until you've scrubbed the country.

Basically, round 'em all up erroring on the "too many" side. Sort 'em out later.

All known terrorists are sent to Midway after it's cleared of people. Release 2,000 ( or an appropriate number to feed them for a year ) pigs. Initiate a no fly, no exit zone around Midway. Basic quarantine on an island.

OR, give each one a pistol with one bullet smeared in bacon grease.

Neognosis · Ladies Man Joined: 13 Jan 2003 Posts: 17617 City: Webster

Um, why the bacon grease? Oh, I get it, so they think they can't go to heaven or something like that?

I can't help but look to the Romans for answers. Rome, an empire that crumbled because it got too big and could not sustain itself amidst internal strife and corruption, but that conquered many countries but also maintained many client states. That's in essence what we are attempting to do, sort of set up a client state.

What would Roman do? Crucify the women that are being held that the terrorists are looking to have released. But we can't do that today, can we? Can we shoot these women for being enemy spies or something like that? What would that do?

What would Saddam do? He was the last one able to contain all the factions in Iraq.

Why the heck can't we seem to catch these guys?

And what happens after you round them all up and kill them, Legge? Do you think that would be the end of it, or would more come out of the woodwork?

jryoung · Ladies Man Joined: 19 Mar 2004 Posts: 7664 City: Man Jose

It is to my understanding that there are only two women in American custody, both high level scientists for Saddam's weapons program. I'm not sure if the call for release was specifically for them or if the Al-Saquwari (sp?) ass-clowns have no idea what they are talking about and are making a blind claim because they think we are holding many women hostage.

Either way since when have radical muslims be pushing for women's rights/dignity.

Neognosis · Ladies Man Joined: 13 Jan 2003 Posts: 17617 City: Webster

Leggester · Posted: Sep 21, 2004 6:24 am Post subject:

No we are not tryingo to emulate Rome.

I stated families and associates also. Including Imams.

Neognosis · Ladies Man Joined: 13 Jan 2003 Posts: 17617 City: Webster

Leggester · Posted: Sep 21, 2004 6:34 am Post subject:

CB, yes we SHOULD learn from them

Most of the downfall of Rome is atttributed to a Welfare State they created.

Rather than empowering their citizens and particians, they bacame a welfare state that let other countries and mercenaries do their work.

Hmmmm, sound familiar? Welfare State?

And no, I do not believe my solution would work, but I am tired of terrorists and their actions. There would be many people left. Other countries would also see the near reality for them ( e.g. Libya whom we just lifted sanctions against ) and either toe the line or get in line for invasion.

J-Ro · Posted: Sep 21, 2004 6:45 am Post subject:

All excellent questions

I agree with both of you, we need to think like our enemy and do thinigs that may appear drastic to Americans, could quickly end this. Why can't we simply start executing their counterparts in our prisons in the same manner they are executing hostages? People are going to die. It is a very sad thing, but in order to keep this from turning into a long long war, we need to end it quickly. 8 second America can't imagine a hundred year war, we are impatient after a year and a half. Therefore we need to untie our overly diplomatic hands and take care of business.

Surround and siege a city and interogate everyone. Bring in translators and psy-ops, and make sure it is done thoroughly. Anyone without a connection to terror has nothing to worry about.

Neognosis · Ladies Man Joined: 13 Jan 2003 Posts: 17617 City: Webster

Wakebrad · Ladies Man Joined: 11 Dec 2003 Posts: 12257 City: Dallas

We're trying to win over the majority of the people... I don't think executing prisoners will do this. It is definately a tough situation. If Bush can turn Iraq into a functioning non-fundamentalist state where they punish the terrorists and don't harbor them he is a freakin saint. I think they have done an excellent job so far of getting a government in place and then let them make the decisions of what to do. It forces the government to take responsibility for their own country and it lessens the responsibility on us. It will take time but slowly their government will take more responsibility and we can become less and less of a presence there.

As for the be-headings. I don't know what we can really do to stop that..

Neognosis · Ladies Man Joined: 13 Jan 2003 Posts: 17617 City: Webster

Leggester · Posted: Sep 21, 2004 7:08 am Post subject:

No it's a very accurate portrayal. Rome was a welfare state, in Italy. Period.

Not trying to sugar coat it at all.

They hired mercenaries instead of using their patrician class like they used to. The Guals and Franks became the man,m not Rome.

Meanwhile in Rome, the Plebians were enjoying the circus and state bread.

I am not skewing a Bubb Rubbing thing. I mean a welfare state, not outsourcing. Much of the east and sout west coast are already there and so is Illinois.

Nor*Cal · Ladies Man Joined: 12 Jan 2003 Posts: 9479 City: Sac

How do we win?

It won't help us win the hearts and minds of the Islamic world but I have a feeling the Israeli Intelligence Organization could teach us some tricks.

I think we need to work from the branches in. Find the people who are posting these videos and work in. Capture or Eliminate those involved.

Neognosis · Ladies Man Joined: 13 Jan 2003 Posts: 17617 City: Webster

Leggester · Posted: Sep 21, 2004 7:55 am Post subject:

No, actually I don't CB. Calling someone ignorant when they do not agree with your ideas actually proves my point more.

Yes, welfare state, documented in many history texts and taught in many universities. Not outsourcing, but letting the other tribes do the work youi shouidl be doing for yourself.

The main down fall of Carthage, Rome and Britain was decadence and a welfare state.

Yet you tell me I am comparing apples and oranges when you try to compare Rome Imperialism to US today?

In either case, I'd love to see us capture these terrorists and hang them in a cage by the roadside until they starve and rot. Leaving their bones unhallowed and a reminder forever of justice served.

Neognosis · Ladies Man Joined: 13 Jan 2003 Posts: 17617 City: Webster

Leggester · Posted: Sep 21, 2004 8:32 am Post subject:

Ah, no that would be the British Empire during the Age of Discovery. Too much excess in imports and not enough work done for themselves.

No need for apologies, but it seemed to me you were ignoring a large part of history. Especially the degeneracy and socialism Rome fell into right before it's fall.

Neognosis · Ladies Man Joined: 13 Jan 2003 Posts: 17617 City: Webster

finkle · Wakeboarder.com Freak Joined: 22 Sep 2003 Posts: 4067

Leggester · Posted: Sep 21, 2004 9:01 am Post subject:

"THey also didn't shun homosexuxuality, and it was a normal phase of a man's life"

Yes true, both the Greek and Roman cultures had this. Very much like the US now huh? We've seen where it go the Greeks and Romans Mr. Green

j/k - just adding more fuel to your fire.

Kid Insano · Addict Joined: 19 Mar 2004 Posts: 842 City: Sandusky

my mom and i were talking about this last night, and to a degree, i feel bad for him and his family, but think about it. this is like, what, the 3rd or 4th beheading in the last few months. if you notice, it's been mostly tourists or people from like the red cross or another organization, people, who in my opinion, have no business over there. i think there's only been one military person beheaded. seriously, they hate americans. these people that go over and think you're going to be safe. i'm sorry, but if you go into a hostile area thinking you're going to be safe, you're a moron. they don't like us and chances are never will. you have better luck winning the lotto than you do making it out of there alive or with your sanity.

jason_ssr · Posted: Sep 21, 2004 9:05 am Post subject:

I am starting to agree more with the oppinion of force stated above by a few posters. Ive always felt that once the government was established, that we should tread lightly. I assumed these beheadings were a short-term outcry by a small group of rebels. I now believe that there is no "higher civilization" solution. We are going to have to get medeval as that is the only thing they understand.

Just goes to show, no matter how sophisticated your army gets, you cant fight a war without offending anyone. We need to drop the white collar war and get blue collar on them. We need to fight fire with fire.

Neognosis · Ladies Man Joined: 13 Jan 2003 Posts: 17617 City: Webster

Leggester · Posted: Sep 21, 2004 9:48 am Post subject:

I don't believe the current government's job is anything more than being able to use a very hard handed effort where necessary. And yes, I do belive they are makin gprogress.

Iraqi airways flew for the first time in many years yesterday - that's progress.

As to the elected government this January, we'll have to see. Perhaps this is the Iraqi version of smear campaign?

jason_ssr · Posted: Sep 21, 2004 9:51 am Post subject:

The tides of conflict can be summed up in one word, and that is fear. It is the ultimate deciding factor. We are trying to win a war without instilling fear, and I dont think it can be done. I think trying to go to war with a set of rules is our worst mistake. Especially since we are fighting those who dont have rules. War is unthinkably violent. The word of the violence spreads and the fear sets in. The enemy has our rule book, and exploits it. They are the only ones willing to get unthinkably violent. Our soldiers dont fear the enemy. They fear what the media will say about them if they do what it is that is done in real war.

Nor*Cal · Ladies Man Joined: 12 Jan 2003 Posts: 9479 City: Sac

Again I suggest a little help from the Israelis... Twisted Evil

microman · Posted: Sep 21, 2004 10:04 am Post subject:

Leggester · Posted: Sep 21, 2004 10:17 am Post subject:

Perhaps I misunderstood you.

Are you saying the US gave him to the terrorists?

Leggester · Posted: Sep 21, 2004 10:23 am Post subject:

Also, apparently your Mr. Taylor is not held in high regard. About on the level of Giraldo...

http://www.freedominion.ca/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=308755

Neognosis · Ladies Man Joined: 13 Jan 2003 Posts: 17617 City: Webster

microman · Posted: Sep 21, 2004 10:26 am Post subject:

stewart · Posted: Sep 21, 2004 10:32 am Post subject:

Sounds like they did #2

microman · Posted: Sep 21, 2004 10:34 am Post subject:

jason_ssr · Posted: Sep 21, 2004 11:22 am Post subject:

No, they dont fear the military force, they are the best in the world with the best technology in the world. Might doesnt keep them from stomping out the enemy, political correctness and rules do. They are afraid to be shot at from mosques they have been told not to return fire into. They are not afraid of doing their jobs, they are afraid of having to do their jobs wearing kid gloves and increasing the risk to themselves and their fellow soldiers for political reasons. Sometimes ugly things occur in war, and the public has historically been shielded from it. Remember how bent America got for the naked prisoners? No, I dont like it, but its part of war. I dont like war, but sometimes war is necessary.