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Wakebrad
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Joined: 11 Dec 2003
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City: Dallas
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 Posted: Jul 27, 2004 12:19 pm Post subject: Saw F9/11 last night |
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Let me just say I wasn't impressed. For all the whoopla about it there weren't many facts presented.
I learned some things though... maybe 3 things.
I didn't know that Bush had a cousin at the fox network.. but just having a friend somewhere doesn't mean much to me.
I didn't know that Bush had a friend that was in charge of the vote count in FL. Again no evidence that she did anything, just that she was a friend.
I didn't know GW played golf.
The rest of the movie was speculation, half truths, and out of context clips.
The second half was boring as hell. That woman's story was one sided and boring. What did she think the government was paying her son for.. 1 weekend a month? You get all of this magical money because in the event that they need you, you will get called into duty. That’s you're job. You're not getting paid for that weekend. You're getting paid for going into battle. If her kids would have tried a little harder they could have received scholarships to college. But its easy to get a bunch of money by signing up for the army. So he took the easy way out. And then it's all GW's fault that he got called in to do his JOB.
Because our lives are worth so much more than the Iraqies we should have just left them with a ruthless dictator who killed millions of his own citizens. But they didn't attack the US so we don't have the right to invade even though they broke the UN treaty on multiple counts...
There's about 2/3rds of the story left untold from that movie. I just hope people realize that when they see it. |
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Bowen
Wakeboarder.com Freak
Joined: 12 Apr 2004
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City: Dallas...I miss SoCal
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| Posted: Jul 27, 2004 12:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Wakebrad, why did you pay money for that?...i remain true to my idea of downloading it. |
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Wakebrad
Ladies Man
Joined: 11 Dec 2003
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City: Dallas
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| Posted: Jul 27, 2004 12:22 pm Post subject: |
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actually I didn't pay money for it, I downloaded it  |
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Bowen
Wakeboarder.com Freak
Joined: 12 Apr 2004
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City: Dallas...I miss SoCal
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| Posted: Jul 27, 2004 12:29 pm Post subject: |
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Good, you learn well.
For those of you against downloading movies, I agree, it is wrong, but this one Micheal Moore himself has come out and said its alright. |
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Wakebrad
Ladies Man
Joined: 11 Dec 2003
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City: Dallas
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| Posted: Jul 27, 2004 12:34 pm Post subject: |
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So it was your idea to download it? Man I'm sure glad you let all of us on the internet know. Saved us a bunch of money. Thanks man.  |
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Bowen
Wakeboarder.com Freak
Joined: 12 Apr 2004
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City: Dallas...I miss SoCal
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| Posted: Jul 27, 2004 12:38 pm Post subject: |
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| werd...anyway, i'm still waitin' for pics of that mullet. |
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Wakebrad
Ladies Man
Joined: 11 Dec 2003
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City: Dallas
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| Posted: Jul 27, 2004 12:40 pm Post subject: |
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| yeah, I tried to download them from the camera last night but it ran out of batteries... I'm definately not the fastest person to upload pictures. It usually takes me about a week. Hopefully I'll upload 'em tonight and post them tomorrow. Are you guys gonna come out Friday you think? |
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Bowen
Wakeboarder.com Freak
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City: Dallas...I miss SoCal
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| Posted: Jul 27, 2004 12:42 pm Post subject: |
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| PMed you |
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dirtysparks
Wakeboarder.Commie
Joined: 07 Jul 2004
Posts: 2428
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| Posted: Jul 27, 2004 1:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Too bad a lot of people won't be able to see through all the B.S. and believe most of the crap he's portraying. |
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jryoung
Ladies Man
Joined: 19 Mar 2004
Posts: 7664
City: Man Jose
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| Posted: Jul 27, 2004 1:22 pm Post subject: |
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dirtysparks, too bad most people don't see through all the BS that the media protrays everyday.
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chavez
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Joined: 22 Sep 2003
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City: Roseville
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| Posted: Jul 27, 2004 1:40 pm Post subject: |
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| jryoung wrote: | | dirtysparks, too bad most people don't see through all the BS that the media protrays everyday. |
Word.
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burton156
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Joined: 24 Jun 2004
Posts: 117
City: saugrites/kingston
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| Posted: Jul 27, 2004 3:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Were are u guys downloading it from, is it coming in good or is it crapy thanks |
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kyle
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| Posted: Jul 27, 2004 3:38 pm Post subject: |
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Wakebrad, michael moore's main purpose of the movie was to display the relationship between his family and the Saudi royals along with the bin laden's and he did that very very well. it was also made to show that iraq posed no terrorist threat to the country, as Bush and his cabinet said that they did not have WMD's before 9/11.
On a side note on Da Ali G Show (if you havent seen it, it is hysterical) on HBO, the guy was interviewing Pat Buchanon who is essentially so right wing, he is a libertarian, and he himself said that we have no business being in Iraq. |
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Wakebrad
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| Posted: Jul 27, 2004 6:40 pm Post subject: |
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kyle, that entire peice was speculatory. The rest of the Bin Laden family are good people. Just because they are related doesn't mean anything. The fact that he is doing things for the benefit of 7% of the entire US stock market isn't necessarily a bad thing. If they were to pull out all that money the economy would probably go bust. Then all those people living in Flint would really be SOL. GW gives them a tax cut while the Democrats are talking about revoking it and they're complaining that the economy is doing bad? What else do they want?
The Ali G show is hilarious but just cuz one guy says we have no business being there doesn't mean anything to me. There are a lot of reasons we went in there. It turns out one of them (a big one) turned out to be bad intelligence. I mean all through Clinton's administration there were reports saying that Iraq was trying to aquire or had WMD. I believe the Intel was wrong and that they didn't lie about it. I mean look how bad it made them look, I'm sure they wouldn't do that on purpose. But there were still plenty of other reasons to go in there. Sadam was playing us for a fool and we called his bluff. We had the right and reasons to go in there, it was just a more questionable move because one of the main reasons turned out to be false.
To be honest the Saudi and Bin Ladens thing doesn't bother me much. He is trying to get oil cheaper to the US and get the economy back up. I don't think he did anything that wasn't justified to go about it. We provide a lot of business to the Saudis and they are very friendly to us. They are being attacked because of it from Al Queda.
I just think the facts that are actually presented are pretty sparse and the assumptions he makes based on the small amount of facts spread pretty far. To an idiot it makes a conclusion. To someone who thinks about the facts and then what he says, you realize it's mostly speculation. I was expecting a solid case against Bush when I saw the movie. What I did see was out of context quotes and a lot of ranting by MM. |
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RhondaStarr
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Joined: 11 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Jul 27, 2004 7:49 pm Post subject: |
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| That movie was insane. Completely insane. If I wasn't watching little blown to bits Iraqi children then i was watching things like the Oregon police force not having enough officers on duty. What the hell does the latter have to do with ANYTHING whatsoever? Most of what was portrayed in that movie, if it was truth, was truth out of context. Sure, people try to defend the movie and it's ideas, but as cheesy as this sounds I'll say it... I think this movie degrades the american spirit and aids in the effort to divide the country. If someone doesn't like Bush then great, but he's the president, and might as well support him while he's still in office. Above all this movie made me depressed and confused. But it comforts me to know that in any other country this guy would be shot for treason. |
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kyle
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| Posted: Jul 27, 2004 8:59 pm Post subject: |
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Wakebrad, the people in FLint have been SOL for over 20 years. Go watch Michael Moore's movie "Roger and Me" about the GM plant closing in Flint and the repercussions it caused. I think it was one of his first documentaries, kind of boring, but interesting
ps The saudi relationship along with the Bin Laden relationship to our country and Bush Sr. going over there as much as he does bothers me a lot along with the amount money they have invested into Bush and our country |
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Neognosis
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| Posted: Jul 28, 2004 3:52 am Post subject: |
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That movie was insane. Completely insane. If I wasn't watching little blown to bits Iraqi children then i was watching things like the Oregon police force not having enough officers on duty. What the hell does the latter have to do with ANYTHING whatsoever?
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It has to do with spending tons of money to "defend America" from Iraq, when a large stretch of our coastline is guarded by ONE guy, and he's only part-time. You couldn't understand that?
Nobody found it interesting that the Saudis bailed out the failing businesses of the young GWB? Or that the Saudis own 7% of our country? Nobody sees a conflict of interests here? You don't think that is significant? Along with the CIA under GHWB and their dealings with the Taliban and Saddam?
You guys are too thick to understand that the woman with the dead soldier son is meant to be a representation of all of YOU who are so gung-ho on fighting for this president? It highlights how personal loss and REALITY conflict with the blind idealism some people have.
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PityDaFool Who Posts This Much
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| Posted: Jul 28, 2004 5:32 am Post subject: |
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You have to be kidding, right CB?
Does it bother you that almost 90% of Hawaii is owned by Japanese? Or California, or Colorado.
Or that Canadians own a large portion of the down town buildings?
Much of the US is owned by foreigners.
And, no, it doesn't bother me.
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Neognosis
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| Posted: Jul 28, 2004 5:55 am Post subject: |
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Does it bother you that almost 90% of Hawaii is owned by Japanese? Or California, or Colorado.
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Yes, but not as much as the president's personal relationship with the Saudi royal family. No American has died fighting to protect Japan or Canada in a long time.
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Wakebrad
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Joined: 11 Dec 2003
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City: Dallas
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| Posted: Jul 28, 2004 6:00 am Post subject: |
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It has to do with spending tons of money to "defend America" from Iraq, when a large stretch of our coastline is guarded by ONE guy, and he's only part-time. You couldn't understand that?
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The Oregon police is a state/local issue. Not Federal. The money Bush spent wouldn't have gone towards the local police there. Maybe this would sway someone who has no idea of how our government works but it shouldn't affect anyone else.
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Nobody found it interesting that the Saudis bailed out the failing businesses of the young GWB? Or that the Saudis own 7% of our country? Nobody sees a conflict of interests here?
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I don't think it's a conflict of intrest. He is trying to do what's best for everyone (whats good for the American people is good for him so he gets reelected). By considering the Saudis in his decision making he's helping make sure 7% of the stock market doesn't fall out. That part of it is good for the US. There were tons of reasons to go into Iraq. The fact that this might be one of them doesn't bother me.
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You guys are too thick to understand that the woman with the dead soldier son is meant to be a representation of all of YOU who are so gung-ho on fighting for this president? It highlights how personal loss and REALITY conflict with the blind idealism some people have.
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Wow... umm. So here's what happened there. This Lady has kids who go into the army because they can't afford to go to college. But they could have gotten scholarships had they worked hard enough in highschool. But they didn't so they sign up for the army and get a bunch of free money. Then when her son gets deployed to Iraq he talks about how he hates the war and doesn't want to be there. Then he gets killed. She's pissed off because stupid GW had to go and fight this war. The reasons aren't justified to her. Well I'm sorry but that was the risk you are willing to take when you sign up for the army. And of course it upps the antie when your kid is involved. But she is basically saying that us freeing the Iraqy people from a ruthless dictator isn't a good enough cause. Then she blames Bush for calling her son up to the army. Well that's cause and effect. You sign up to go to war, you go to war, you might die.
She didn't have a blind idealism. She was just standing behind her kids. She never said she agreed with the war before her son went over. When you take a risk you are willing to make the loss of what you risk. They risked it. They lost. Afterwards she completely didn't understand why her son died. Well there are reasons but she was blind after her son died. It turned from blind supporting the war to blind hating the war. That's not a picture of enlightenment. That's just following your emotions.
So I don't think this is a representation of me. I also don't think my evaluation is "thick headed" it's just seeing through the emotion to the actual ignorance behind it all. |
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PityDaFool Who Posts This Much
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| Posted: Jul 28, 2004 6:04 am Post subject: |
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But CB! We lost thousands of US jobs because Japanese cars were more reliable and cheaper ( even with the chicken tax ) than US made Union cars!
NAFTA has let the Canadians and Mexicans take countless US jobs!
All these poor US folks are on welfare now due to the Japanese and Canadians!
So, basically, we are loosing US lives so the Japanese can keep selling us cars and the Canadians can keep stealing our jobs!
You keep forgetting we get more oil from Venezuala than from the M.E.
But hey. Let's just forget that it's M.E. rad Islamites that are killing the US civilians and sodjers!
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Wakebrad
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Joined: 11 Dec 2003
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| Posted: Jul 28, 2004 6:09 am Post subject: |
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But CB! We lost thousands of US jobs because Japanese cars were more reliable and cheaper ( even with the chicken tax ) than US made Union cars!
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Yup. If there's no jobs in a city MOVE SOMEWHERE ELSE. This happened a long time ago. It's not the government's fault foreign cars are more reliable than american. |
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Neognosis
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Joined: 13 Jan 2003
Posts: 17617
City: Webster
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| Posted: Jul 28, 2004 7:57 am Post subject: |
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The Oregon police is a state/local issue. Not Federal. The money Bush spent wouldn't have gone towards the local police there. Maybe this would sway someone who has no idea of how our government works but it shouldn't affect anyone else.
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Are you including yourself in that statement? Bush't tax cuts resulted in less money given from the fed to the state gov'ts, which resulted in budget cuts and tax increases on a local level to make up for the missing federal money.
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I don't think it's a conflict of intrest. He is trying to do what's best for everyone (whats good for the American people is good for him so he gets reelected)
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That's pure opinion, and I take the opposite viewpoint.
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But she is basically saying that us freeing the Iraqy people from a ruthless dictator isn't a good enough cause. Then she blames Bush for calling her son up to the army. Well that's cause and effect. You sign up to go to war, you go to war, you might die.
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She's saying that she used to be all "rah rah rah" for joining the army, but she didn't realize that her kid could get killed in a war that has nothing to do with WMDs or retaliating for 9/11, like she was led to believe.
I say "thick" because this woman's complete 180 illustrates that there is a reality to war- death, destruction, waste, suffering- that nobody cares about when you are miles away and the news is censored, and you end up fighting in a country that wasn't a credible threat, didnt' have WMDs, wasn't involved in 9/11, and wasn't actively supporting Al Queda. I would say she has a right to be upset, her kid is dead, for what? So some people who don't even want or appreciate it can have a mockery of a democracy?
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All these poor US folks are on welfare now due to the Japanese and Canadians!
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I know, and I hate NAFTA and have a small amount of ill will tword Americans who allowed American cars to become crappy, and twords people who buy foreign goods when a comprable American alternative is available. What's your point?
Better on welfare than dead face down in the desert, though.
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You keep forgetting we get more oil from Venezuala than from the M.E.
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I don't forget that, ever. That's a non-sequitor and doesn't pertain to anything I've said today.
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But hey. Let's just forget that it's M.E. rad Islamites that are killing the US civilians and sodjers!
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Right, and our occupation of Iraq has made us so much safer  There have been more terrorist attacks on US targets since the occupation of Iraq than ever in the history of the US, combined.
Osama- still out there
WMDs- still out there, but somebody else has them
Al Queda- 30 or 40 guys that WE DIDN'T FIND because we are F'ing around in Iraq. There will be more cops guarding the Repub. nat. convention than looking for Al Queda and Saddam. (Jon Stewart)
This is going to be a matter of perspective, but I think things are made more dangerous by the administratons policies and action in Iraq. But hey, who cares if we aren't safer, if we are in more danger, if a bunch of ungratefull Iraqi's can have a "democracy" that descriminates against Jews and wants to use a religion as a basis for "democratic" rule? What a joke. And Americans DIED and were maimed for this.
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Last edited by Neognosis on Jul 28, 2004 8:16 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Wakebrad
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Joined: 11 Dec 2003
Posts: 12257
City: Dallas
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| Posted: Jul 28, 2004 8:11 am Post subject: |
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Are you including yourself in that statement? Bush't tax cuts resulted in less money given from the fed to the state gov'ts, which resulted in budget cuts and tax increases on a local level to make up for the missing federal money.
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We're not talking about tax cuts here. We're talking about the war. The war doesn't have to do with State taxes. The tax cuts have to do with state taxes. This is a difference in economics. I agree with Reganomics in that if you give people their money back they will spend it and regenerate the economy. This will make people earn more and then pay more taxes even though it is at a lesser percentage. They will in tern pay more state taxes... sales or income. That's my opinion about economics but you're talking about 2 different issues here.
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Saddam- still out there
WMDs- still out there, but somebody else has them
Al Queda- 30 or 40 guys that WE DIDN'T FIND because we are F'ing around in Iraq. There will be more cops guarding the Repub. nat. convention than looking for Al Queda and Saddam. (Jon Stewart)
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Saddam- About to be jacked (not still out there)
WMDs- No one knows... don't speculate.
Al Queda- It does bother me that we didn't go after Al Queda more but I don't think that was a cause of invading Iraq. There were plenty of troops that could have been called. I don't know why more weren't. I would like an answer to that.
Also the cops are again city/state employees. They can't be deployed to fight a war. That statement doesn't mean anything. I saw that on the Daily Show last night by the way. Jon Stuart is hilarious. |
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PityDaFool Who Posts This Much
Joined: 13 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Jul 28, 2004 8:21 am Post subject: |
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I believe you mean Bin Laden is still out there. 
I agree the WMDs are still around and somewhere else.
I don't agree in buying inferior US materials over others. Even with a $7K per car chicken tax, foreigners seemed to make better cars ( from the 70s - 90s ) than a Union man making 70K per year. I don't believe line factory workers are worth that and that they pricced themselves and their companies out of the market. People always talk about the greedy "man". But, a line factory worker making that much is rediculous. They did it to themselves and their company. I dont' have pity for Union men.
Cops don't patrol borders.
I don't agree with you Iraq logic. Strategically, you cut possible sources instead of "swatting flies". This applies to drug dealing, the 'mob' and fighting terrorists.
Iraq was never about retaliation for 911. It is a fight against terrorists and entities that support terrorists. You may as well get used to this fight. It's going to take 30-50 years, IMO, to get this done.
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Neognosis
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Posts: 17617
City: Webster
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| Posted: Jul 28, 2004 8:22 am Post subject: |
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We're not talking about tax cuts here. We're talking about the war. The war doesn't have to do with State taxes. The tax cuts have to do with state taxes.
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We are talking about George Bush, though, orchestrator of those Federal tax cuts, and the war.
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I agree with Reganomics in that if you give people their money back they will spend it and regenerate the economy
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I agree to an extent as well. but I believe that it is irresponsible to take an economy that has a surplus for the first time in a long time, and allow tax cuts to take place while we are at war. Hey, back in debt, at war, but at least you have some extra money in your pocket, right? That's what's important, after all!
I wrote "saddam" when I meant to write "osama."
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Also the cops are again city/state employees. They can't be deployed to fight a war
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No S Shirlock. It points out that we are not really as serious about capturing AQ as we were about fighting Iraq, who wasn't an immediate threat, and it says something when there are more cops dedicated to guarding a convention than there are soldiers and intelligence officers hunting down terrorists. We are too busy in Iraq to be capturing terrorists.
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Wakebrad
Ladies Man
Joined: 11 Dec 2003
Posts: 12257
City: Dallas
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| Posted: Jul 28, 2004 8:33 am Post subject: |
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Hey, back in debt, at war, but at least you have some extra money in your pocket, right? That's what's important, after all!
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We were always in debt. The economy started to fall when Clinton was in office. It would not have kept up had we kept the taxes the same. Also if you agree that giving us back more money stimulates the economy then you would also agree that stimulating the economy means the governemnt gets more tax dollars. It's not about the money in my pocket. It's about the benefit of the US.
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It points out that we are not really as serious about capturing AQ as we were about fighting Iraq
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Its much easier to get a large number of cops for 1 night than it is to deploy people to go to war. The numbers about the republican convension don't mean anything. I don't agree that we can't fight both wars. We have the people. If we didn't put enough people on getting Al Queda it was a choice. I don't think it was a result of the war on Iraq. This war isn't just about Al Queda. It's stopping all of the groups trying to do the same thing. You need to stop the source. It is documented that Sadam gave people thousands of dollars to be suicide bombers. Iraq was a major supporter of terrorism. It also changes the dynamics of the Middle East completely. It shows that countries better be serious about not harboring terrorists or we will get you. |
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Neognosis
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City: Webster
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| Posted: Jul 28, 2004 8:51 am Post subject: |
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We were always in debt. The economy started to fall when Clinton was in office.
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We had a budget surplus under Clinton. We spent less money than we collected.
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Also if you agree that giving us back more money stimulates the economy then you would also agree that stimulating the economy means the governemnt gets more tax dollars.
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Unfortunately, it's not a 1:1 return, though. I give you 10 bucks, and you give me 1 dollar back. Big deal. I was better off with the 10 bucks originally.
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Its much easier to get a large number of cops for 1 night than it is to deploy people to go to war
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Especially when they are fighting the wrong people.
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If we didn't put enough people on getting Al Queda it was a choice
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The wrong choice, because we need people to fight in Iraq.
We are going to get hit again. Letting the guys who do the hitting get away so we can concentrate more on countries that don't have the ability to make war on us is a mistake.
YOu can believe it was because the president had a plan to drew AQ out and to cut away the support for AQ, but I believe it was because of personal motives relating to the Saudis.
The garbage with the Saudis is more than enough to warrant my voting for anyone but Bush this November. When you add in:
Enron and Ken Lay
Cheny and his relationship to Halliburton and their relationsip to the war
Bush's dealings with the Taliban in Texas
Rumsfeld and his dealings with Saddam in the 80's
Cheny and his relationship with Scalia and Scalia's refusal to excuse himself from that case involving Cheny and that "energy" commission.
No WMDs
No link to 9/11
No link to AQ any stronger than those by Iran, Syria, and all the rest of them
it just goes on and on. Any one of these raises an eyebrow, all together, they raise serious concerns.
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PityDaFool Who Posts This Much
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| Posted: Jul 28, 2004 9:00 am Post subject: |
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CB did not make any note about RNC, I believe he was talking about the current DNC going on.
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Wakebrad
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Joined: 11 Dec 2003
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City: Dallas
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| Posted: Jul 28, 2004 9:24 am Post subject: |
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Enron and Ken Lay
Cheny and his relationship to Halliburton and their relationsip to the war
Bush's dealings with the Taliban in Texas
Rumsfeld and his dealings with Saddam in the 80's
Cheny and his relationship with Scalia and Scalia's refusal to excuse himself from that case involving Cheny and that "energy" commission.
No WMDs
No link to 9/11
No link to AQ any stronger than those by Iran, Syria, and all the rest of them
it just goes on and on. Any one of these raises an eyebrow, all together, they raise serious concerns.
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That's almost all speculation. You don't know what happened. At the time all of the ingelligence from a ton of sources pointed to Iraq having WMD. It was a decision we made based on that information which turned out to probably be incorrect. It was not a lie. There were a lot of good reasons to go in there. Unfortunately some of them didn't pan out. You can not blame Bush for this intelligence. "the Senate Intelligence Committee, Lord Butler’s investigation in Britain and now the 9/11 Commission have all come out and said there was no lying on the part of President Bush. Plus, Vladimir Putin has said his intelligence told Bush there were weapons of mass destruction"
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,127236,00.html
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Unfortunately, it's not a 1:1 return, though. I give you 10 bucks, and you give me 1 dollar back. Big deal. I was better off with the 10 bucks originally.
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Not exactly. If I give you 2% more and you make an extra 5% because of it then the government is getting more money.
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We had a budget surplus under Clinton. We spent less money than we collected
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Alright well tell me what Clinton did to cause these surplus budgets? Oh he didn't do anything? It must be a result of the good economics in place by Regan and GHB. It is a fact that the economy and unemployment rate started to fall at the end of Clintons term. Bush started with a ship that was going down and is trying to pull it back afloat as well as remove terrorists and the countries who aid them. Clinton wouldn't have had a surplus budget if he was president for another 4 years. |
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Neognosis
Ladies Man
Joined: 13 Jan 2003
Posts: 17617
City: Webster
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| Posted: Jul 28, 2004 10:12 am Post subject: |
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That's almost all speculation.
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That's right. And one, two, even three things that are "speculation" are enough for concern, a dozen or more things? Come on........
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You can not blame Bush for this intelligence.
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I blame genetics.
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Alright well tell me what Clinton did to cause these surplus budgets? Oh he didn't do anything? It must be a result of the good economics in place by Regan and GHB. It is a fact that the economy and unemployment rate started to fall at the end of Clintons term. Bush started with a ship that was going down and is trying to pull it back afloat as well as remove terrorists and the countries who aid them. Clinton wouldn't have had a surplus budget if he was president for another 4 years.
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I think you are wrong, but the Clinton admin is beyond my scope of knowledge, so I won't argue your points. I do think that it is not smart to wreck a surplus by giving money back to people in the hopes that it will grow the economy, which is only a theory, don't forget, and then try to fight a war. Back in defecit again.
_________________
I walk 47 miles of barb wire, I got a cobra snake for a necktie, a brand new house up on the road side, and it's made out of rattlesnake hide |
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RhondaStarr
Newbie
Joined: 11 Jul 2004
Posts: 21
City: Seattle Area
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| Posted: Jul 28, 2004 11:27 am Post subject: Oregon Police Force |
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| I know its kind of late now, but I just wanted to say, the Oregon Police and Fire services are funded by Oregon State. Bush can't do anything to deduct the funding from them. That point was illogical, and put in there to make a point, but it doesn't even play out. |
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chavez
Ladies Man
Joined: 22 Sep 2003
Posts: 27375
City: Roseville
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| Posted: Jul 28, 2004 12:26 pm Post subject: |
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I do think that it is not smart to wreck a surplus by giving money back to people in the hopes that it will grow the economy, which is only a theory, don't forget, and then try to fight a war. Back in defecit again.
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Hold up there CB - the surplus went bye-bye because the economy slowed down at the end of the Klinton administration. Bush just had the unfortunate pleasure of inheriting the mess.
Here's how it really went down:
Klinton years: false economic boom led by false hopes of new economy (we had the great debate in 1999 about this, Economist PHD vs Economist BS - PHD won). Tax revenue surged due to capital gains spurred greatly by stock options given in leiu of salary. Government spending increased due to increased revenues, but was masked due to massive influx of capital. Reality check begins in March 2000 and continues through 2002.
Bush years: Inherited so-called "surplus", but due to severely reduced tax revenue due to lack of capital gains (which now became capital losses - a tax writeoff), surplus quickly became deficit. In an effort to spark economy after 9/11, Bush enacts tax cuts which do spur growth (still growing 2 years later). Deficit spending to continue until further notice due to oversized government created mainly by Klinton but partially by Bush.
Yes the war is not helpful, but that is only a small fraction of a huge issue.
Sorry for the summarization - but this is just to make a point that the deficit is not completely the fault of the current administration.
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| Quote: | | That's Mr. Gingermex to you a$$hole. |
RIP MHL 04/25/1958 - 01/11/2006 |
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SupraBoarder
Wakeboarder.Commie
Joined: 13 Jan 2003
Posts: 1316
City: Atlanta GA...Fair Play SC.... and St Petersburg FL
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south
Soul Rider
Joined: 01 Apr 2003
Posts: 297
City: Newcastle, Australia
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| Posted: Jul 29, 2004 2:39 am Post subject: |
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Iraq was a major supporter of terrorism. It also changes the dynamics of the Middle East completely. It shows that countries better be serious about not harboring terrorists or we will get you.
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Big tough America. we will get you?? everyone knows that the Iraqi defence force was a rag tag bunch of hillbillies running around, and they are still causing trouble to the US.
http://www.iraqbodycount.net/bodycount.htm
lets look at the iraqi civilian casualties from just Gulf War II. Now try to explain to me that Iraq is a better place for the US going in there and removing Saddam. Take note that this does not involve Iraqi Military Casualties during the "war phase"
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There were plenty of troops that could have been called. I don't know why more weren't. I would like an answer to that.
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what troops, its obvious the US defence force is stretched in Iraq and Afghanistan. Look at the people who are being called up. Look at the people who were running the prisons and the other support personnel, look at the people being called up.
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/military/jan-june04/army_1-13.html |
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