DIY Cruise Control

johnny · Outlaw Joined: 20 May 2003 Posts: 109 City: Myrtle Beach

Anybody ever attempted this? It would probably be just RPM based, but would be much cheaper than PP.

I figure get a car cruise control and rig it up and see what happens or what can be done. If monitoring RPMs cant be done, then maybe add a paddle wheel.

I dont know - just throwing it out there.

DiyGuy · Soul Rider Joined: 26 Dec 2003 Posts: 460

That would be an ambitious project! I'd be tickled to see what someone could come up with.

Unfortunately, car aftermarket cruise controls work off of driveshaft RPM with a sensor attached to detect a magnet and it spins around. On top of that - no Brake pedal to dis-engage! *LOL*

johnny · Outlaw Joined: 20 May 2003 Posts: 109 City: Myrtle Beach

Audiovox makes a "Universal" cruise control that you can manually engage/disengage and can also increment and decrement your speed in 1mph intervals.

The solution may be ghetto - but hell its worth a try

hamkj · Soul Rider Joined: 19 Dec 2003 Posts: 303 City: City

Can someone say lawsuit? For the cost, why not go with Perfect Pass and have the security that it works properly and you wont run over anyone because it doesnt disengage. But it is totally up to you!

stich · Newbie Joined: 26 Feb 2004 Posts: 15 City: Pioneer

Speaking of Perfect Pass, my wife pulls me when I get to ski and now she wants to add PP to the boat. Is there a place anyone knows of you can get a good deal on it?

chavez · RIP MHL 04/25/1958 - 01/11/2006

DiyGuy, the ones I used to install worked off of engine RPM and used the speed sensor lead from the ECM.

You must be referring to the truly old school cruise controls, before cars had ECM's... Wink

Lyle · Posted: Mar 17, 2004 11:28 am Post subject:

We did it. Or at least I should say we have tried. Worked on it all last summer. We were trying to develop a new product for Chrome Dome Industries, essential a low cost PP so more riders could have them. Actually Audiovox is one of the brands we looked at. We ended up using a different brand that had a little better controls. We first adapted it to run off of paddle wheel, lucky we had an Electrical Engineer with a PHD on the team. The problem was that the computer didn't understand the delay in reaction to speed. Essentially it expected when throttle was given that there should be change in speed right away, but with a boat there is more of a delay than a car. What would happen is it would get in this cycle where it would start out at 21 mph, then after about 30 seconds it would start bouncing from 20 to 22, then after 5 minutes you would be going from 17 mph up to 24 mph. It was always chasing itself. Then we hooked the speed sensor directly to the engine. This worked better, and I think like the low end PP. It held the RPMs really well, but the speed was still fluctuating by about 2 mph. Grant it we were doing our testing on an i/o because we figured it would be more difficult to hold the speed. So controlling engine speed might work on an inboard with this set up. Our next step if we decide to do it is essential design a new computer for it. I have many pages of notes on the different things we did but to no avail .. . yet.

Oh by the way it works great for slalom skiing, but seeing how I only do it about once a year what is the point.

oshensurfer · Posted: Mar 17, 2004 12:45 pm Post subject:

Can someone explain why PP and Accuski products are as expensive as they are? They all run off pretty basic software now and the devices are not that complicated of a computer, and servos are relatively moderate in price... So can anyone enlighten me with something other than R&D, cause both these products have been on the market for over 10 years and each line is a version of the top product with features pulled off. I know people are paying the $1100 and that's a good reason (demand is there), but it sure seems like they should be in the range of $500-750 un-installed. I'm not trying to complain here, I just want to understand better why they are over $1000. Question

chavez · RIP MHL 04/25/1958 - 01/11/2006

oshensurfer, Has nothing to do with how much it costs to make. If it did, PP would cost about 100 bucks. But, because it's "hot" right now to wakeboard they have priced everything that has to do with wakeboarding way way up.

oshensurfer · Posted: Mar 17, 2004 2:50 pm Post subject:

That's what I figured. Gouge.

johnny · Outlaw Joined: 20 May 2003 Posts: 109 City: Myrtle Beach

PP has the market cornered, thas why they charge so much.

I bet if you take a poll of the main reason why ppl dont already have PP, it will be cost. I think most riders like myself cant justify the $1100 price tag, b/c that could be better spent on other more needed and yet still expensive wakeboard gear.

If PP dropped the price, they would be selling ten times what they are currently sellling. If WakeBoardPro was $499, every boat owner would probably already have one.

PPs marketing team must really suck. Their price has been 1100 for how long now??
Doesnt seem to me like they want to move any units around. We all know they could sell it at $499 and still make a killing off of it, anybody who thinks otherwise is just FOS.

oshensurfer · Posted: Mar 17, 2004 3:24 pm Post subject:

Agreed. I'll bet you they raise the price before they lower it. They have good service and seem to be nice people, but they could sell a buttload more if they lowered the price. I've been looking for about 6 months for a better deal... I think I'll still be waiting six months from now. Evil or Very Mad

salmon_tacos · Posted: Mar 17, 2004 3:30 pm Post subject:

Lyle,

Doesn't PP somehow use the speed AND the rpm as inputs?

Maybe your PhD electrical engineer can design something to take those two inputs and tweak them for the CC computer. I'm thinking of a circuit that would translate a higher RPM, relative to the speed, (i.e. the boat is trying to speed up but it just isn't there yet) to look like a higher speed and also the other way around (low RPM relative to speed). This would keep the computer from giving it more gas when you're already accelerating and backing off when you're already decelerating.

...just an idea.

oshensurfer · Posted: Mar 17, 2004 3:32 pm Post subject:

salmon_tacos,

That avatar is ... bad. Heheh.

Nor*Cal · Ladies Man Joined: 12 Jan 2003 Posts: 9479 City: Sac

we have the technology.... Idea

Who wants to volunteer a boat? haha lets DIY this thing and undercut the market like Monster Tower has done. Or at least get all of us hooked up with a cruise control system. Idea

oshensurfer · Posted: Mar 17, 2004 3:39 pm Post subject:

*creek cree---eeek* Mr. Green

JANSEN · Outlaw Joined: 15 Oct 2003 Posts: 101 City: LYNNWOOD

What about this PP
PerfectPass RPM Cruise. RPM based speed control for recreational skiers -- not for touranament skiers, V-drives, weighted boats, or inverted tricks. Driver manually drives skier up to speed and then pushes engage button. Does a very good job as a basic speed control. List $675 USA Waterski Price and Club Member price: $607 Delivered to your door in USA 48

oshensurfer · Posted: Mar 17, 2004 3:59 pm Post subject:

JANSEN · Outlaw Joined: 15 Oct 2003 Posts: 101 City: LYNNWOOD

oshensurfer, I saw that to, but cann't figure out why.

chavez · RIP MHL 04/25/1958 - 01/11/2006

JANSEN, oshensurfer, it appears from the description that it does not regulate speed, only RPM. If that is the case it is not a true "cruise control" - a CC or PP unit adjusts RPM due to increased/decreased resistance (chop) to maintain a set speed.

If you ride glass all the time it would probably work great - which is good for those of us who spend a lot of time in the Delta Smile

oshensurfer · Posted: Mar 17, 2004 4:14 pm Post subject:

That and once the rider jumps, the lack of resistance on the engine will probably cause the speed to jump a couple miles per hour depending on how hard you cut or vice versus would be my guess. It'll pull you off balance or slack the rope. Not good.

chavez · RIP MHL 04/25/1958 - 01/11/2006

oshensurfer, exactly.

Hey I've got a great cruise control system - I call it my right arm. Works killer! Cool

JANSEN · Outlaw Joined: 15 Oct 2003 Posts: 101 City: LYNNWOOD

So, if you want it done right, I guess wakeboardpro is the only way to go?

jvanick · Posted: Mar 17, 2004 7:30 pm Post subject:

wakeboardpro or accuski...

I prefer the perfect pass after riding behind boats with both systems...

-J

DiyGuy · Soul Rider Joined: 26 Dec 2003 Posts: 460

Why not take a PP apart and take a close look at the electronics. It HAS to be there as the rest of the stuff is just plain ole monkey motion of mechanical parts. I suppose they have trademarked and copyrighted everything right down to the box it comes in.

Where there is a will there is a way.

Lyle · Posted: Mar 18, 2004 10:40 am Post subject:

salmon_tacos,
My friend with the PHD in EE said it would probably take about 6 months to design something and it is cheaper just to go buy one.

I took a few classes in systems controls is school. The stuff to progam a cruise control is intensely complicated. It is funny how simple it seems but how difficult to replicate. Most people take for granite what they are actually doing when controling the speed of a vehicle but there are a lot of variables there that are constantly changing.

I have taken apart a Perfect Pass, without a mapped out wiring diagram, it is impossible to duplicate. Maybe if I call PP they will send it to me Cool

It is funny too because I figured after failing at trying to control the speed it would work to control the RPMs because when a rookie is pulling me that is how I tell them to control the speed. Well the cruise control did great at holding the RPMs way better than a human can do, but the speed was still varying by about 2 mph at wakeboarding speed. Any other speed it does fine, but our boat has a lot of weight and at wakeboard speed the boat inherentlly wants to go faster or slower.

I agree the price is too high, that is why CDI was/is trying to create a cheaper version.