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Neognosis
Ladies Man
Joined: 13 Jan 2003
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City: Webster
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 Posted: Mar 04, 2004 8:44 am Post subject: Amendment against Gay Marriage |
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Thoughts?
This seems ridiculous to me. AMEND the constitution? Isn't that supposed to be reserved for serious stuff? And mostly to add on additional rights, not to take rights away or preclude rights?
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luckysloan777
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| Posted: Mar 04, 2004 8:53 am Post subject: |
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well to me, our constition was based on God/The Bible. Therefore there should be no gay marraiges...and plus being gay is useless, we were put on the earth to reproduce (basically) and when your gay you cant do that. Im not homophobic or anything i just think being gay is stupid...thats just me talkin though.
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Neognosis
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| Posted: Mar 04, 2004 8:59 am Post subject: |
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our constition was based on God/The Bible
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No it's not. There is no outline for government of a people outside of monarchy anywhere in the Bible.
I wasn't put on this earth to reproduce. And gays can reproduce, and often do.
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luckysloan777
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| Posted: Mar 04, 2004 9:04 am Post subject: |
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really that can reproduce through the butt holle
CRAAAZZZY
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chavez
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Joined: 22 Sep 2003
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| Posted: Mar 04, 2004 9:08 am Post subject: |
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cameraboy, no constitutional amendment. Federal Laws maybe, but this should be left out of the constitution.
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Nor*Cal
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Joined: 12 Jan 2003
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City: Sac
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| Posted: Mar 04, 2004 9:14 am Post subject: |
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This seems ridiculous to me. AMEND the constitution? Isn't that supposed to be reserved for serious stuff? And mostly to add on additional rights, not to take rights away or preclude rights?
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Totally agree. For the most part citizens are against an amendment but Bush has to please his base by making those statements. IMO this is an issue to be decided at the state level with federal guidelines for tax purposes.
The Bill of Rights protects the individual. IMO this amendment would create a negative feelings towards our civil liberties. Laws yes... Amendment NO...
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Chales
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| Posted: Mar 04, 2004 9:19 am Post subject: |
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| The best argument I can thing of is it would be a bad influence on my kids, but other than that, why don't we just let people marry who/whatever they want to? What are we so afraid of? |
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Swass
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| Posted: Mar 04, 2004 9:20 am Post subject: |
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"The best argument I can thing of is it would be a bad influence on my kids"
"What are we so afraid of?"
What are you afraid of? |
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chavez
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Joined: 22 Sep 2003
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| Posted: Mar 04, 2004 9:23 am Post subject: |
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What are we so afraid of?
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I don't really know that it's a fear thing - unless you are super religious and fear the wrath of god.
The problem is that the super-majority of people in the US don't want gay marriage. 1% of people should not be able to force their will on the other 99%.
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*chris*
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| Posted: Mar 04, 2004 9:24 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | why don't we just let people marry who/whatever they want to? What are we so afraid of? |
i tend to agree with that quote. granted the whole homosexuality may seem pretty disgusting, this is the "land of the free" right? (although sometimes that may seem a little overboard.  ) there are worse things that could happen.
so i say ...let them be  . just dont ask me to participate.
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NorCalStud686
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| Posted: Mar 04, 2004 9:25 am Post subject: |
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I agree with Nor*Cal, i think it should be a state based decision, mabye taking a vote whether or not our state would want to allow it or not, and do the same with all the states. But i think it might cause some problems if you do that, if say 30 out of the 50 states, OK's Gay Marriage, would those gays in the remaining 20 states move to those 30 that OK'd it? Would it cause some states' populations to grow pretty rapidly?
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chavez
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| Posted: Mar 04, 2004 9:29 am Post subject: |
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IMO this is an issue to be decided at the state level with federal guidelines for tax purposes.
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Just out of curiousity - what do you think should happen if the gay couple moves to a state that doesn't recognize their marriage? What rights to they get to keep and which ones do they lose?
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| Quote: | | That's Mr. Gingermex to you a$$hole. |
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Chales
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| Posted: Mar 04, 2004 9:29 am Post subject: |
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| I'm afraid of the influence it would have on my kids because they don't always tend to listen to their parents and make valid decisions on their own... |
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Nor*Cal
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| Posted: Mar 04, 2004 9:29 am Post subject: |
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"What are we so afraid of?"
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I think the biggest issue comes with Taxes and healthcare. I don't have a strong opinion one way or the other. Civil Unions sound fine to me but I don't believe we should redefine marriage.
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shaggy26
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| Posted: Mar 04, 2004 9:39 am Post subject: |
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I have a number of gay friends and I don't care what they do with there lives. Its THERE life, not mine. I don't understand why peeps get so upset over this issue. Personally, its a non-issue.
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Swass
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| Posted: Mar 04, 2004 9:43 am Post subject: |
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"I'm afraid of the influence it would have on my kids because they don't always tend to listen to their parents and make valid decisions on their own..."
Nature - not nurture.
Am I to infer that homosexuality is not "valid"? |
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Neognosis
Ladies Man
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City: Webster
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| Posted: Mar 04, 2004 9:48 am Post subject: |
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really that can reproduce through the butt holle
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Maybe you'll grow up when you go away to college.
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Neognosis
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| Posted: Mar 04, 2004 9:50 am Post subject: |
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I'm afraid of the influence it would have on my kids because they don't always tend to listen to their parents and make valid decisions on their own...
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I don't think that allowing gay marriage will turn your kids gay if they are not gay to begin with.
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Chales
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| Posted: Mar 04, 2004 9:50 am Post subject: |
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Yup.
And maybe this is because I'm heterosexual myself, but I think it is a "nurture" thing. I know that in the middle ages, a lot of the knights were gay because women were viewed as being really weak. But then later on homosexuality became more unaccepted (religion) and there were barely any gays at all. And now that it has become a bit more open, they say that 10% of the world population is homosexual... Wtf? There is not a 1/10 chance of a child having a natural sexual attraction towards the same gender. That is just not right. |
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Nor*Cal
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| Posted: Mar 04, 2004 9:53 am Post subject: |
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What are the true implications?
I know that some tax codes cater to married couples. How would this change or would it change?
Healthcare. Does gay marraige make it easier for people of the same sex to possibly cheat the system even if they are not gay?
I don't know the answers just asking the questions.
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Neognosis
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| Posted: Mar 04, 2004 9:55 am Post subject: |
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I knounaccepted (religion) and there were barely any gays at all.w that in the middle ages, a lot of the knights were gay because women were viewed as being really weak. But then later on homosexuality became more
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You miscount an OBVIOUS element here, and that is that when homosexuality is repressed gay people either hide it all their lives and don't marry, or they marry and pretend to be straight, and are miserable and cause misery for their families. You make the unwarranted and illogical assumption that discounts people hiding a behaviour when socially unacceptable.
And why would knights be gay if women were considered weak? That doesn't even make sense. Also, I'm relatively sure that the middle ages were among the most repressive of all time. Perhaps you are confusing the middle ages with the Greek or Roman periods?
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There is not a 1/10 chance of a child having a natural sexual attraction towards the same gender. That is just not right.
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Yes it is. And sexuality is on a sliding scale, with some people far to one side or the other, but the majority being more moderately to one side, and a small percentage being genuinely in the middle. Sexuality is not, for the most part, a black and white issue.
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Swass
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| Posted: Mar 04, 2004 9:57 am Post subject: |
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"And maybe this is because I'm heterosexual myself, but I think it is a "nurture" thing."
I'd say you've been influenced by the religious right's hate machine. Either way, you've formed that opinion in spite of evidence to the contrary.
"I know that in the middle ages, a lot of the knights were gay because women were viewed as being really weak. But then later on homosexuality became more unaccepted (religion) and there were barely any gays at all. And now that it has become a bit more open, they say that 10% of the world population is homosexual... Wtf?"
LOL! Wow. Do you really think the world's population of homosexuals fluctuates based on the religious climate at the time?
"There is not a 1/10 chance of a child having a natural sexual attraction towards the same gender. That is just not right."
You formed that opinion based on nothing but your own bias. |
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Chales
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| Posted: Mar 04, 2004 10:00 am Post subject: |
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Hmph. You guys suck.   |
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Neognosis
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City: Webster
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| Posted: Mar 04, 2004 10:01 am Post subject: |
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NO, but I often get sucked......
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Nor*Cal
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| Posted: Mar 04, 2004 10:02 am Post subject: |
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The spartan males were all bisexual. It was a societal norm. Boys were raised in the Agoge with all men from the age of 7-18/20. During there late teens they were taken in by a male warrior as a mentor/lover. When spartan men were married the womans hair would be cut and she would wear the clothing of a man.
No one knows why people are gay. It can be accepted or rejected by societies.
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Neognosis
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| Posted: Mar 04, 2004 10:07 am Post subject: |
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Nor*Cal is correct.
This all depends on how you define sexuality. Is it the inclination, or the act? Masters and Johnson showed that the overwhelming majority of human beings are somewhere to one side or the other of a sliding grey-scale when it comes to sexuality. A truly 100% gay or straight person is not the norm. Society does factor a lot into how honest a person can be with themselves, and can condition a "revulsion reaction" to certain ideas, to be sure. But a 100% straight person (and they are in the minority) can NOT be turned gay. And someone who is born with a leaning to the straight side of the scale can not be moved to the other side of the scale simply by outside influence.
THis isn't an opinion, it's a report on scientic studies.
Homosexuality also exists in the animal kingdom, as does bisexuality. (and, interesting enough, sometimes alcoholism.)
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Leggester
PityDaFool Who Posts This Much
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| Posted: Mar 04, 2004 10:12 am Post subject: |
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No matter wht the argument, this IMHO should not be a Federal matter. It should be up to the individual State's to decide. That why we're a Democratic Republic. Each state should be making this decision.
Bush should stay out of this and start vetoing more spending bills.
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Dave W
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| Posted: Mar 04, 2004 10:22 am Post subject: |
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| chavez-y-chavez wrote: |
The problem is that the super-majority of people in the US don't want gay marriage. 1% of people should not be able to force their will on the other 99%. |
EXACTLY! This gets us right back to the tyranny of the minority thing that has been discussed before.
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Neognosis
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City: Webster
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| Posted: Mar 04, 2004 10:29 am Post subject: |
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No matter wht the argument, this IMHO should not be a Federal matter.
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I'll agree. I like to highlight it everytime I find a common ground with Leggester.
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The problem is that the super-majority of people in the US don't want gay marriage. 1% of people should not be able to force their will on the other 99%.
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Where the hell are you getting those numbers? I hope you were not being literal. That 1% doesn't even account for a tenth of all gay people. You are WAY, WAY off with those figures. I think the majority don't care either way, a core of radicals are very much in support of it, and a core of radicals are very much against it. But it is no way even close to 99 to 1.
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Nor*Cal
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| Posted: Mar 04, 2004 10:30 am Post subject: |
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Where the hell are you getting those numbers?
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I've heard gays are anywhere between 1% to 6%. No more than 6%.
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Neognosis
Ladies Man
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City: Webster
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| Posted: Mar 04, 2004 10:34 am Post subject: |
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Difficult, almost impossible to quantify the gay population. We can only count those that live as true homosexuals. You can't quantify something that is not black and white accuarately anyway.
Is this number only people living active gay lifestyles? Do you count as gay if you had a few gay experiences but prefer women? What about if you prefer both equally? What about if you mostly like women, but sometimes like men, but never act on that? What about...................
This one facet of the problem. Homosexuality is little understood, and what is understood is ignored in favor of traditional ideas and viewpoints.
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chavez
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| Posted: Mar 04, 2004 1:30 pm Post subject: |
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cameraboy, I was generalizing. If you happen to have the real numbers, post em up! 
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| Quote: | | That's Mr. Gingermex to you a$$hole. |
RIP MHL 04/25/1958 - 01/11/2006 |
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Chales
Guest
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| Posted: Mar 04, 2004 1:42 pm Post subject: |
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| cameraboy wrote: | Nor*Cal is correct.
This all depends on how you define sexuality. Is it the inclination, or the act? Masters and Johnson showed that the overwhelming majority of human beings are somewhere to one side or the other of a sliding grey-scale when it comes to sexuality. A truly 100% gay or straight person is not the norm. Society does factor a lot into how honest a person can be with themselves, and can condition a "revulsion reaction" to certain ideas, to be sure. But a 100% straight person (and they are in the minority) can NOT be turned gay. And someone who is born with a leaning to the straight side of the scale can not be moved to the other side of the scale simply by outside influence.
THis isn't an opinion, it's a report on scientic studies.
Homosexuality also exists in the animal kingdom, as does bisexuality. (and, interesting enough, sometimes alcoholism.) |
Oh, well, to state the obvious I didn't really know this. I guess I'll change my thinking accordingly. About the knight thing though, I do remember hearing or reading that from somewhere, I didn't mean the greeks or romans. Women were considered as always sitting at a castle and never doing anything and never thinking about anything, so a lot of the knights were gay. |
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salmon_tacos
Wakeboarder.Commie
Joined: 14 Jan 2003
Posts: 2498
City: Austin
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| Posted: Mar 04, 2004 1:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Dave W wrote: |
EXACTLY! This gets us right back to the tyranny of the minority thing that has been discussed before. |
Umm...tyranny? I think this is more like PROTECTION of a minority. Blacks are a minority. Should we outlaw black culture? Wakeboarders are a minority. Should we outlaw wakeboard boats?
This is about tolerance and setting aside irrational fears of people who are different from you.
If such an amendment were passed, according to the will of the people, it would prove to me that the masses are even stupider than I had previously believed, which would be saying a lot!
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TubeNazi
Soul Rider
Joined: 27 Aug 2003
Posts: 368
City: Dallas
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| Posted: Mar 04, 2004 2:00 pm Post subject: |
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I, personally, feel that this is not a moot issue. Those "1%" aren't forcing the other "99%" to do anything. Noone should have a problem with gays unless they are having sex in the street or literally forcing you to have sex with them. Both are an issue for straight people as it is for homosexuals.
As for the religious issue; If you're not gay, then you only have to worry about the other things you're doing that are sending you to hell. Not about saving the Ellen Degeneres(sp?) from an eternity in hell. I'm not religious, so I could care less; but that is still beside the point.
I guess TV is out of the question for your kids. There are plenty of shows with good ratings clogging up the airwaves full of gay people. |
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