Opinions on Tige's

Nor*Cal · Ladies Man Joined: 12 Jan 2003 Posts: 9479 City: Sac

Having raced sailboats and seeing this argument you can't say that America Cup boats are the strongest things out there. They constantly break. Remember OneAustralia folding in half and sinking in 3 minutes. Recently the Young America campaign saw the same thing except they managed to keep their boat from sinking

Nor*Cal · Ladies Man Joined: 12 Jan 2003 Posts: 9479 City: Sac

I honestly don't know what is better. As the son of a contractor I like the idea of overbuilding or over-engineering things. It's just better to know that what you've made is not going to break.

As for sailboats I just wanted to take them out of the debate. Especially open class boats such as those found in the America's Cup. Open classes are constantly pushing technology and often find out the hard way that nature and engineering sometimes disagree.

Funny fact- Most of the rigging (what holds the mast in place) is now spectra like wakeboard ropes.

Cool pics though???

nick360 · Criminal Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Posts: 85 City: Phoenix

Actually, MulletMan, Chaparral started to make the change over to all composite boats and actually built a few models wood-free. They have since gone back to wood coring because they weren't satisfied with the ride and feel of the composite boats. Now, I believe only a couple of their smallest models are wood-free.

My only question on the Fountains would be whether they are building their actual race boats wood-free for duribility reasons or to make a lighter weight boat, since the goal of racing is to be the fastest and we would all agree a lighter boat should be faster.

As far as the torsion box designs, I guess your basic position is that the Tige' fiberglass is not thick enough to provide the strenght on it's own, without the wood core. I would just like to state that I have been to the Tige' factory and their glass stringer is every bit as thick as the glass stringer samples that Mal has placed in it's dealers.

But alas, it seems as though this post is wearing down. Props to you too, MulletMan. Good debate. Until we meet again... Wink

Mike · Addict Joined: 30 Jan 2003 Posts: 536 City: Orlando

TIGE IS THE BEST BOAT ALL THE WAY!! Very Happy

J_DOGG · Posted: Mar 17, 2003 4:51 am Post subject:

I have lots of opinion's on Tige...lets just say you wont like any of them..

If you like the boat and the wake is clean enough for you, buy it, that's all that matters. Sharp looking boats no doubt.

PEACE

Mike · Addict Joined: 30 Jan 2003 Posts: 536 City: Orlando

They are very nice boats and you will not be dissappointed with them.

seven20 · Posted: Mar 17, 2003 8:06 pm Post subject:

I would have to say that I also agree with Mullet Man, and wish I would have seen this post sooner. I would be afraid to buy a tige, I don't care what the warranty says. I have seen many boats that are suppose to be good boats that aren't assembled very well. People always say things like "bayliner and searay are the same company" I know we aren't talking about runabouts, but even in the way those two boats decks are joined...bolting as opposed to pop-rivets. I would much rather have one of the big three (+ supra) because they have a 100% no wood in their boats. As far as the fountain boats, they have I believe 12 or 14 stringers in their system, so that is still a lot stronger than 4 in the tige. I don't believe that some of the boats are going back to wood for better quality. They want to drive profits back up and wood is cheaper. And for the comment as chapparel being one of the good boats, I have seen plenty of them rotted out like a bayliner or monterey. I know that many boats have became better built since the early nineties, but I would rather have a boat that has a solid reputation for being a good boat. Someone told me about their tige having a wooden backseat, and all of the wood was rotted and had to be replaced. That boat was a 98 model. Isn't it true that wood will rot if it doesn't breathe? I haven't did my homework on the XL panel wood, so I can't be sure, but I am sure that if it doesn't breathe, it can eventually rot. That will be long after the first owner, though, and tige won't have to fix it. Restoring boat interiors, I see this kind of stuff everyday from many descent companies, but the mastercraft, cc, supra and upper end runabouts just have bad carpet and upholstery. Most of the others have bad rotted so called marine plywood in them, when many companies that offer marine plywood are actually using pressure treated wood, so as I say, I would agree with mulletman, and go with the sure thing...stronger and rot free.

Nor*Cal · Ladies Man Joined: 12 Jan 2003 Posts: 9479 City: Sac

Seven- Do your HW on XL panel wood and come back. If you don't know anything about the product you are arguing against you shouldn't try and create an argument without facts. So your extended post is merely filler with speculation about a product you know nothing about and have not taken the time to research.

All the Tiges I've been in don't have wood backed upholstery. At least the Tiges made in the last 5 years.

Nor*Cal · Ladies Man Joined: 12 Jan 2003 Posts: 9479 City: Sac

Just pisses me off that people can rant about something they have no direct cogent argument against. You really should have facts before trying to slander some product you have not done the research on.

At least MulletMan brought up points with evidence to back them.

Mullet Man · Outlaw Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Posts: 132 City: SoCal

NorCal, You go to UCR?

Nor*Cal · Ladies Man Joined: 12 Jan 2003 Posts: 9479 City: Sac

No I go to a private University in Riverside. CBU.

seven20 · Posted: Mar 18, 2003 2:23 pm Post subject:

NorCal, I will aplogize. I did my homework on the XL panel wood, and I now agree with you. I was not ranting with no cause, just voicing my opinion...at least I did admit that I didn't do my homework. The boat with the rotted back(tige) wasn't a 98, it was a 96. The kid told me it was a 98, but his dad said 96. I still think that the torsion box design would be stronger, but everyone has different tastes and in a wakeboarding boat it shouldn't matter and I know my 87 2001 has wooden stringers and it holds up fine.

salmon_tacos · Posted: Mar 18, 2003 2:45 pm Post subject:

Can somebody please define "torsion box" construction. All the stuff I found about it said that it was a core, usually a lattice of some kind, bonded to a skin.

That sounds like the Tige hull/stringer/deck structure that someone described.

Say one boat has 6 longitudinal stringers and another boat has 3 longitudinal "box beams" and they are all bonded nicely to the deck and hull. I'd say the only difference is that the former has 6 wood/fiberglass sandwich stringers and the latter has 6 all-fiberglass box walls (stringers), possibly with foam between every other one.

If rot is not an issue, what's the big deal?

seven20 · Posted: Mar 18, 2003 2:51 pm Post subject:

Strength, but after researching it today, I don't think that is a big deal anymore...I'd buy one after looking at them.

Nor*Cal · Ladies Man Joined: 12 Jan 2003 Posts: 9479 City: Sac

I came a little hard with that comment Seven. I appreciate you taking the comment the way you did.

seven20 · Posted: Mar 18, 2003 5:31 pm Post subject:

No worries, Nor, we all get a little worked up sometimes. I didn't take it personally

Mullet Man · Outlaw Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Posts: 132 City: SoCal

Salmon, A torsion box much like a cardboard box. The design and shape of the walls are where the shape gets its strength. A box uses corugated paper for strength. A torsion box stringer is similar in which specially arranged composite materials are used to achieve the wall strength. It is a design based on shape and materials that creat 4 walls that are strong enough to handle loads and strain caused by torsion (flex and twist). Because of the advanced design, the stringer could be hollow and it will not lose is strength in any way. An example would be Malibus's stringer system which is hollow. CC and MC use foam to fill thier stringers but not for adding strength. I would recommend looking up torsion box airplane wing design. They have a lot of good websites that explain it well.

lee · Outlaw Joined: 13 Jan 2003 Posts: 196 City: USA

Mullet Man: What is different in Malibu's construction and Moomba's construction or Tige's. You have not told the differences in construction methods but just say that torsion box is better. Most boats have stingers and floors, so what is different that makes it better?

ohsix · Posted: Mar 18, 2003 6:37 pm Post subject:

i haven't researched any of the boats constuction very much but i do know i (my dad payed for it if you wanna get technical) have a 95 tige and me and my friends pretty much beat the hell out of it and it has held up very well. the only problem i have had with it is knocking the prop guard into the prop and that was either my fault or the trailers fault i believe, not the boat's. personally i dont think the boat will break structurally. i've done quite a few powerturns at 35+ mph that have thrown all kinds of people and gear out of the boat but it hasn't shown any signs of problems. also i just have an extended pylon and have pulled 2 tubers very violently and i thought it would rip the pylon out of the boat and it never did.

i'm not sure who builds the strongest boat but i deffinately have faith that tige's are no p.o.s.

renster · Newbie Joined: 06 Mar 2003 Posts: 31 City: Asheboro

OBSERVATION - IT SEEMS AS THOUGH ALMOST ALL OF THE TIGE BASHING THAT TAKES PLACE ON THESE BOARDS (WHICH USED TO BE MUCH MORE PREVELANT) IS DONE BY PEOPLE THAT DON'T EVEN OWN TIGE'S. TIGE SEEMS TO HAVE A LOT OF FANS - MOSTLY MADE UP OF PEOPLE THAT ACTUALLY OWN TIGE'S. THAT PRETTY MUCH SPEAKS FOR ITSELF.

seven20 · Posted: Mar 18, 2003 7:34 pm Post subject:

renster, please, stop yelling at us. I know plenty of people who love tige and have never been in one, just seen them at the boat show.

nick360 · Criminal Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Posts: 85 City: Phoenix

Mullet Man,

Good to see you again! Wink

You said that a torsion box stringer uses it's 4 sides for it's strength, not it's core. You also said that a torsion box stringer does not require the floor or hull for it's strength. Where is the 4th side to this Mal stringer? By the looks of the picture, either it is a 3 sided stringer, or it would require the hull to be the 4th side, there by requiring the hull for it's strength.

RUSSIAN · Posted: Mar 18, 2003 8:56 pm Post subject:

"i've done quite a few powerturns at 35+ mph that have thrown all kinds of people and gear out of the boat", Are you f'n serious, If I was in your boat and you threw me out, I would be in jail right now. That is one of the most irresponsible things I have ever heard. Power turns are for jetski's

Mullet Man · Outlaw Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Posts: 132 City: SoCal

Nick, that is a pretty good picture, where did you get it? You are correct. The stringer system is incorporated into the floor on most boats. I have not seen any different yet. I was wondering how long it would take for someone to bring this up. Yes it does require the hull to complete the fourth side, but the strength does not come from the build of the hull but the addition of the fourth side. In doing so you do create a torsion box. This is not achieved in any boat with a grid style wood stringer system. Good point though! Also, the stringer consists of much more than that. I have another good cut-away pic I will see if I can find.

How bout this...did you know that wood and fiberglass will never actually chemically bond. Wood will expand and shrink in different temperatures and eventually seperate from fiberglass. That is why there is such a problem with delamination over time. Even if wood is completely wrapped in fiberglass it will slowly work apart and lose the initial strength.

nick360 · Criminal Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Posts: 85 City: Phoenix

nick360 · Criminal Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Posts: 85 City: Phoenix

Mullet Man,

I have an another question you might be able to answer with your expertise in Mal construction. What is Malibu's "Space-Age" floor? I've been told a couple of things by other reps, but was curious as to your information.

Mullet Man · Outlaw Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Posts: 132 City: SoCal

I have been trying to figure that out. I have seen a piece of it and it is super thick, like 2 inches almost, but weighs next to nothing. Was pretty impressive. It weighed less than a similar piece of glass and felt just as sturdy. To me it looked like some type of carbon. Not the carbon fiber but actual expanded carbon. I will see if I can find more out. My statement abotu the floor is that based on the design of the torsion box I think you would find that the stringer has the same resistence to flex and twist if you just added another side (in this case part of the floor) and it did not rely on the overall length and width of the floor for strengthening it. I think that the Tige stringer does utilize the entire hull shape.

nick360 · Criminal Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Posts: 85 City: Phoenix

As far as the dash, I was told by a rep (not Mal or Tige in case you are wondering) that it is foam wrapped in fiberglass. They said that Cobalt and Chaparral use the exact same material to make their dash's. If so, seems like an interesting choice to build a floor out out of.

From what I could tell by the looks of the construction kiosk at the Mal dealer, it appears as though the floor is two layers of the stuff that might be a total of 1" thick.

Mullet Man · Outlaw Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Posts: 132 City: SoCal

From what I gather it is a form of carbon that is sandwhiched between two other composite materials. I looked at my friends boat and it appeared to be about 1 1/2 inches thick. Who knows exactly what it is though.

Mullet Man · Outlaw Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Posts: 132 City: SoCal

Here is another pic of the completed stringer floor system