Questions for the gun guys here, where to start?

Dragonlady8 · Black Widow Joined: 27 Aug 2004 Posts: 9198

jason_ssr, thanks for your input - not exactly petite ( muuah!) but no heifer either.

Yes I do need to go out and try a few different models, but it's nice to hear the perspective about the small/"pocket-purse" guns.
Not even sure about purchasing one. Just looking to get an understanding & knowledge.
Education is key.

jason_ssr · Posted: May 17, 2012 5:59 pm Post subject:

Fair warning, firearms are addictive to people like us who like progression and enlightenment. I think that is part of the draw of wakeboarding, and can be seen in cooks, mechanics, gardners, etc. ( as you know we see alot of these other things among us).

When firearms become an interest and you procure your first one, its similar to buying your first skillet. You can do alot with one skillet, but as your skills become refined, there is a proper tool for every challenge in the kitchen. Before you know it you have unwittingly acquired an entre chefs kitchen.

Shooting is addictive and as you begin challenging yourself with different aspects of shooting, your one tool no matter what it is, will fall short. So, you get another, and another, and another, etc.....

And for the record, pocket guns are not bad guns. They just arent fun guns, and they arent meant to be. Big guns can be too much of a hassle to carry for guys and guys just stop carrying them after a while. A pocket gun is not fun to shoot, the trigger pull is hard, the recoil sux, most dont even have sights on em. But they do just slide into your front jeans pocket and are so light you forget about it, and they will save your life if the bad guy is within 10-20ft of you. They make a good 3rd or 4th skillet!

boardordie · Posted: Jul 25, 2012 9:17 am Post subject:

jason_ssr, What's your thoughts on the FNFiveSeven now that you've had some time to play with it? I've heard it's a love it or hate it type of caliber. Some are saying it's velocity turns bones to dust and other say a .22 mag is just as powerful.

I'm debating what caliber I want to go with because I'd like to shoot the same for pistol and carbine to standardize my ammo buys. Hoping to get to the local range and demo the FNFiveSeven.

jason_ssr · Posted: Jul 25, 2012 11:34 am Post subject:

The love:

It is a really cool piece. FN is like the Apple of firearms as far as creativity, fit, finish, and function. I have big hands and this thing just fits perfectly. It is extremely accurate and since there is so little recoil, hitting what you aim at just seems to come naturally, and follow up shots are dead on as well. There are generally two schools of thought on defensive weapons: 1. shot placement plus high capacity is ideal. 2. bigger pieces of lead is ideal. Both have their merrits, but I fall into catagory 1. With its rifle ammo and high capacity, it is known as the pocket rifle. The other great thing about it is that its extremely light.

5.7 is a really unique cal. I guess from a purely ballistic standpoint SS197 only puts up somewhat better numbers than 22mag shot out of a long rifle, but not overwhelmingly superior. However, I dont think that tells the entire story. You are looking at a slow burning rimfire cartridge with a blunt nosed pistol type projectile designed to be shot out of long rifles, vs. a centerfire, fast burning, pointed rifle type round, designed to be shot out of short barrels. Yes, there are youtube videos of ss197 turning bone into powder. SS197 is the weakest civilian round there is. its for sporting purposes and has the same Hornady 40gr ballistic tip bullet as the 5.56\.223 (which is what is fired from the AR15) . It does stay supersonic like a rifle, so you get the advantage of hydrostatic shock as well. You get some Elite Ammo T6 rounds and now you have AR15 type ballistics that exceed the military's high end 5.7 rounds.

The hate:

The nature of the 5.7 round lends itself to comfortable rapid fire. You fly through ammo like its going out of style. Since it has such far reaching abilities, you end up burning through ammo shooting various targets at 100+yds just because you can. It has 20rd mag so shooting til empty and doing a mag change, then shooting til empty again can get pricy. Currently, 5.7 ammo is only made by FN, American Eagle, and Elite Ammo. When I got my PS90, it was everywhere. The past two months its been scarce, therefore marked way up. So, you have to buy up when supply is good.

TnR6Rida · Posted: Jul 25, 2012 9:42 pm Post subject:

Well I'm in love with this now, thank you.

http://www.fnhusa.com/le/products/firearms/model.asp?gid=FNG001&fid=FNF062&mid=FNM0173

boardordie · Posted: Jul 26, 2012 3:59 am Post subject:

jason_ssr, Thanks for the write up. Like I mentioned above, the local range has a demo of both the FiveSeven and the PS90 so I'm definitely going to try them out before I start throwing money around.

Your comments on the availability of the 5.7X28 ammo is also one of the things that concerns me. Over the past couple days researching these weapons I've checked a lot of the ammo sites and local sources for availability. There's a few sites that have it available but probably 80% of the places I checked have it on back order or it's out of stock. The guns quickly turn to worthless clubs (and really short clubs I might add) when there's nothing coming out the end of the barrel!

jason_ssr · Posted: Jul 26, 2012 4:34 am Post subject:

TnR6Rida, HAHA! yeah, thats pretty much the king of the mountain as far as 45's are concerned. FN does make the coolest stuff.

boardordie, that is always the case when looking for affordable ammo that has a military demand. 5.56 and 7.62 wax and wane as well based on military demand and surplus\retirement. Last summer, they were giving away 7.62 and I only bought a couple cans thinking, "there seems to be good supply now!" Havent found a single can of radway or bag of DAG since. That doesnt mean I cant buy ammo, its just I will be paying the match grade price. 5.7 is used by our secret service and by elite military groups all over the world. When any of them make a big buy, the ammount that gets on public shelves will drop. However, it always comes back, so if you stock up right, you never have to pay the gouger prices.

The good news is that up until this year there have only been three 5.7 weapon models. The two FN guns and the AR57. FN was the only company making ammo (Elite Ammo was but those are custom rounds). Now Federal just came out with the American eagle FMJ 5.7. This spring there have been 4 or 5 new brands hit the market with their 5.7 rifles. I think this will bring more ammunition companies to the table to start producing it. its only going to get better.

In the interest of full disclosure, there are groups out there who do not like the 5.7mm guns. The Brady campaign unsuccessfully tried to get the guns banned from retail sales because of its devastating damage, high capacity, and its capability of going through body armor like wet butter. They are also the gun of choice for mexican drug cartels because of their easy use\accuracy, high capacity, and mobility. I figure if they ever ban them, my investment just went up 10X in value.

jgriffith · Posted: Jul 26, 2012 5:16 am Post subject:

The Five Seven will be my next gun for sure. Gotta get it before the ban it.

boardordie · Posted: Jul 26, 2012 7:39 am Post subject:

I saw a couple articles about the ban. A little extreme since the rounds that penetrate body armor aren't available to the general public. Obviously being able to reload gives someone the ability to achieve the same results as the banned rounds.

The more research I do, the more I'm leaning away from a combo pistol/carbine in the same caliber. The old saying "a pistol is only good for fighting your way to a rifle" keeps ringing in my ears. The ballistics and accuracy of a pistol round don't improve enough when fired from a carbine to make it worth the $ the more I think about it. Probably look at the FiveSeven for the pistol advantages and something else to reach out and touch/knock down bigger targets.

TnR6Rida · Posted: Jul 26, 2012 8:07 am Post subject:

jason_ssr, I cant even find onr for sale.

Broccoli B · Posted: Jul 26, 2012 8:18 am Post subject:

Where do you guys buy ammo online?

I hear some can ship direct, and some ship to a licenses dealer, any insight on that?

TnR6Rida · Posted: Jul 26, 2012 8:20 am Post subject:

jason_ssr, I cant even find one for sale.

TnR6Rida · Posted: Jul 26, 2012 8:22 am Post subject:

Broccoli B, I thought pretty much all ammo could be shipped direct. At least what I've bought has.

boardordie · Posted: Jul 26, 2012 9:06 am Post subject:

TnR6Rida, There's plenty of them online. You just have to work with your local gun shop to arrange shipment to them and pay the transfer/FFL paperwork. Someplaces will charge you as little as $15 and others I've seen go as high as $50. Just make sure they know it's coming! A couple shops around here charge an extra fee if an item is shipped in and no one told them what, where from, and who it's shipping from.

Broccoli B, I haven't run across a site that didn't ship direct to my home address for regular ball ammo. I have seen tracer and other exotic rounds that needed to be shipped to a gunshop first. What are you trying to buy? Shocked

Nor*Cal · Ladies Man Joined: 12 Jan 2003 Posts: 9479 City: Sac

Think it might be vz 58 time... Wink

TnR6Rida · Posted: Jul 26, 2012 9:58 am Post subject:

boardordie, If you've found some online please show them to me. I've looked at gunbroker and many other websites, and have yet to find one. I have found several of the regular 45's, but none of the 45 tactical in the FDE color, or even black.

I know about having to get it shipped to my local ffl holder. My guy does it for $30. Kind of on the cheaper end, I know of some that charge a lot more to better who don't know any better. Laughing

boardordie · Posted: Jul 26, 2012 10:47 am Post subject:

TnR6Rida, My bad! I thought you were looking for the FiveSeven. After a quick search you're right... I can't find the FNX in 45 either. I found 9mm and 40 but no one has the 45. There was one in my area an individual was selling on armslist.com but it had sold as well. Either it's a sweet gun or they only made 10 so far.

TnR6Rida · Posted: Jul 26, 2012 11:06 am Post subject:

boardordie, I think it's just asweet gun. I'm not the type to drop that much coin on something like this, but this gun has me seriously considering it if I can find one.

That FiveSeven is pretty sweet too. Wish I could get both Laughing

jason_ssr · Posted: Jul 26, 2012 2:00 pm Post subject:

jason_ssr · Posted: Jul 26, 2012 3:21 pm Post subject:

Nor*Cal · Ladies Man Joined: 12 Jan 2003 Posts: 9479 City: Sac

jason_ssr · Posted: Jul 26, 2012 4:49 pm Post subject:

Sweet, I always just assumed those had a kalishnikov mechanism but they are independent piston driven like an FAL. Pretty cool! Do they make it in semi, and can you get it here? I was considering a Galil.

My Keltec RFB uses mechanics similar to the FAL as well, even uses FAL mags.

Dude, get one and come to Texas! They actually allow you to discharge them here, lol!

Nor*Cal · Ladies Man Joined: 12 Jan 2003 Posts: 9479 City: Sac

Found a CA compliant version here: http://www.czechpoint-usa.com/products/rifles/762-x-39-mm/sa-vz58-california-sporter-ds/

Still legal for the time being but I feel like after this I should pick up receivers for guns I might want in the future and future CA legislation (potential Federal legislation) will ban with the political reaction to the recent tragedy.

An FAL and Galil are on the list, wouldn't mind building a bullpup either.

TnR6Rida · Posted: Jul 26, 2012 8:09 pm Post subject:

jason_ssr · Posted: Jul 27, 2012 10:20 am Post subject:

Cosmetically they are the same. There are some minor mechanical changes, and a slightly different mag. They are basically just aligning their naming convention. They made the other FNX guns by modeling them after the FNP45.

Neognosis · Ladies Man Joined: 13 Jan 2003 Posts: 17617 City: Webster

bought a Beretta A400 Xcel sporting this morning.
Shooting trap with it tomorrow morning.

TnR6Rida · Posted: Jul 28, 2012 6:16 pm Post subject:

Ghost0 · Newbie Joined: 12 Aug 2012 Posts: 14

I think a very important first question is what is your budget?
Guns are like anything else, different options at different price ranges. And yes, more expensive guns are as a rule better.

I would advise against a .22. IMO they are a waste of money, because they are not very fun to shoot. Not bashing anybody who has them, just personal opinion. I think you will get tired of shooting the .22 quick, and want something different.

If you want a rifle, I agree with the ar-15 in .223. Can get surplus rounds for cheap, and can customize it down the road if you get the bug. Also, they hold their value pretty well, so if you hate it, you wont loose your ass. There are many companies that make fairly inexpensive good ar-15s, like stag arms.

For handguns, I agree with the xd-9. Can get in 3, 4, or 5" barrels, and they are one of the most reliable handguns of all time. They also have the 1911 grip safety, with I personally like.

Be careful with this though! It can get addicting, and its an expensive hobbie!!!

jgriffith · Posted: Aug 13, 2012 5:06 am Post subject:

Ghost0, What don't you like about 22lrs? I have guns of all types (AR, AK, 300 mag, 12 guage, several different hand cannons and tamer handguns), but my lil ruger 10/22 is one of my favorite guns to shoot. You can plink all day long for 10 bucks (the range I go to has those little metal targets that you shoot down from several different distances) or hunt things like rabbits, squirrels, turkey or any other small game.

I love the AR, but ammo gets expensive, I reload, but its still WAY more expensive than the little rimfire bullets.

Ghost0 · Newbie Joined: 12 Aug 2012 Posts: 14

jason_ssr · Posted: Aug 15, 2012 5:58 pm Post subject:

.22lr is awesome!! It's great for dang near anything you want to do! It's fun and challenging for all shooters from beginners to expert marksman. It's cheap, plentiful, and extremely lethal. People who love doping longer shots enjoy .22. The survivalist/zombie guys love em because you can carry so much ammo. Speed shooters love the low recoil. The silencer guys love the near whisper sound. .22lr has a place in every possible type of gun enthusiast's safe.

More people have died from .22lr than any other round, so be safe!!

Nor*Cal · Ladies Man Joined: 12 Jan 2003 Posts: 9479 City: Sac

I spend most of my range time with a .22LR. Saw this one on Top Shot and just think it is a cool looking gun but would be infinitely challenging.

jgriffith · Posted: Aug 16, 2012 10:30 am Post subject:

Ghost0, I enjoy the big bang as well, when I pull out my ported 480 ruger it nearly shuts down the range with everyone wondering what the hell I am shooting. But at over 50 cents a shot with re-loaded ammo it gets expensive!

Nor*Cal · Ladies Man Joined: 12 Jan 2003 Posts: 9479 City: Sac