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jt09
Ladies Man
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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City: Austin
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 Posted: Feb 13, 2014 10:16 am Post subject: |
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| RampageWake - beat me to it. |
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chavez
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Joined: 22 Sep 2003
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City: Roseville
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| Posted: Feb 13, 2014 10:16 am Post subject: |
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Another fun one:
So.... Pyramids and Dinosaurs, together? Awesome.
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microman
PityDaFool Who Posts This Much
Joined: 13 May 2004
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| Posted: Feb 13, 2014 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Okie Boarder wrote: |
This still doesn't sound like you are witnessing the addition of new information. As far as I know and have read about, no new genetic information has ever been observed as being produced by a mutation. I've read about duplication of information. Is that what you are referring to as new information? |
What do you mean by "new information"? A single mutation can sometimes change the entire function of a gene. Duplications, insertions, mutations, deletions; they are all necessary for evolution to happen. Every time a cell divides the potential exists for these alterations to occur. Let's just say it's been a hell of a lot of nucleic acid replications since that first self-replicating RNA.
| Okie Boarder wrote: |
Most everything I've read from creationists that embrace science are saying that God created everything AND that evolution (micro evolution as they term it) has happened ever since. |
On Ken Ham's website that the earth is 6000 years old.
http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/2007/05/30/how-old-is-earth
His group also says all animals on earth were put on the "ark" 4300 years ago and that everything on earth was wiped out in a flood.
http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/2013/04/11/welcome-to-ark-encounter
I would say to hold onto this view you would need to pretty much have to live in a religious bubble. |
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Okie Boarder
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Joined: 03 Mar 2008
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City: Edmond
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| Posted: Feb 13, 2014 12:54 pm Post subject: |
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What do you mean by "new information"? A single mutation can sometimes change the entire function of a gene. Duplications, insertions, mutations, deletions; they are all necessary for evolution to happen. Every time a cell divides the potential exists for these alterations to occur. Let's just say it's been a hell of a lot of nucleic acid replications since that first self-replicating RNA.
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New genetic information. As far as I understand it, no new information has ever been produced by a mutation. A decrease of scrambling of genetic information, or a duplication of information, but not new.
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On Ken Ham's website that the earth is 6000 years old.
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OK, and how does that negate the ability of life evolving? The evolution you have observed in your work can happen in what, minutes, hours, days?
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His group also says all animals on earth were put on the "ark" 4300 years ago and that everything on earth was wiped out in a flood.
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Not all animals...all kinds. So, how is this saying that evolution (micro evolution) does not exist?
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Okie Boarder
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Joined: 03 Mar 2008
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City: Edmond
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| Posted: Feb 13, 2014 12:58 pm Post subject: |
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A couple interesting questions...
Has anyone observed the evolution of fish to a domesticated dog?
Has anyone observed the evolution of wolf to a domesticated dog?
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chavez
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Joined: 22 Sep 2003
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City: Roseville
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| Posted: Feb 13, 2014 1:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | So, how is this saying that evolution (micro evolution) does not exist? |
No, it's saying if you believe the story of Noah's Ark you are a moron.
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| Quote: | | That's Mr. Gingermex to you a$$hole. |
RIP MHL 04/25/1958 - 01/11/2006 |
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RampageWake
Wakeboarder.Commie
Joined: 23 Jul 2003
Posts: 2002
City: Houston
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| Posted: Feb 13, 2014 1:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Okie Boarder wrote: | A couple interesting questions...
Has anyone observed the evolution of fish to a domesticated dog?
Has anyone observed the evolution of wolf to a domesticated dog? |
You find those questions interesting, huh?
I know I will be dumber every time I open this thread but I just can't quit you Okie!
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Okie Boarder
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Joined: 03 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Feb 13, 2014 1:14 pm Post subject: |
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So, what are your answers and why?
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chavez
Ladies Man
Joined: 22 Sep 2003
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| Posted: Feb 13, 2014 1:17 pm Post subject: |
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It's MAGIC!
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| Quote: | | That's Mr. Gingermex to you a$$hole. |
RIP MHL 04/25/1958 - 01/11/2006 |
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microman
PityDaFool Who Posts This Much
Joined: 13 May 2004
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| Posted: Feb 13, 2014 1:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Okie Boarder wrote: |
New genetic information. As far as I understand it, no new information has ever been produced by a mutation. A decrease of scrambling of genetic information, or a duplication of information, but not new. |
Bases frequently get added to the genome during replication (cell division), particularly in regions where they have no effect on the phenotype. No two people for example, have the the exact same number of nucleotides in their genome. Even twins will accumulate some individual minor changes over their life. When they happen in the sex cells they get passes on obviously. Give that process a few billion years.
| Okie Boarder wrote: |
Not all animals...all kinds. So, how is this saying that evolution (micro evolution) does not exist? |
All "kinds"? That's a creationist term and nothing else. Nonetheless, the point is if you believe in a young earth, and the ark story, you don't accept evolution at any point. It's not a POV worth discussion.
And this micro vs macro stuff is based on nothing more than arbitrary cutoff points that people use to hang onto some part of the Genesis creation story. |
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Okie Boarder
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Joined: 03 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Feb 13, 2014 1:54 pm Post subject: |
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Kind(s) is a term used in the language of that portion of the Bible, and it is a term that had a particular meaning for the time and the reference.
Let's back up for a second and look at something. What are you defining as evolution? Isn't it changes of characteristics of a lifeform over time?
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Okie Boarder
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| Posted: Feb 14, 2014 6:45 am Post subject: |
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You could say family or genus rather than kind, also. The point is it wouldn't have had to be every single animal that exists today, just the ones that can get us there through reproduction and variation.
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Chad H
PityDaFool Who Posts This Much
Joined: 28 Jun 2004
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City: Atlanta
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| Posted: Feb 14, 2014 7:45 am Post subject: |
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| OKIE BOARDER 4 PRESIDENT |
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ohsix
PityDaFool Who Posts This Much
Joined: 12 Jan 2003
Posts: 6837
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| Posted: Feb 14, 2014 10:57 am Post subject: |
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| I love the irony of this thread. The guy that considers himself the forums foremost expert on evolution is also the least mature and hasn't contributed anything to support his argument (other than reproducing a few slides). The guy that says he wants to learn just argues against anything he is taught (which could be a form of learning, but he obviously has made up his mind as to what he believes). |
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Okie Boarder
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Joined: 03 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Feb 15, 2014 9:24 am Post subject: |
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Seems like we're done. Thanks for the discussion for everyone that participated. Even though my intention wasn't to debate the issue again, it still ended up being a pretty good discussion. I hope we all keep an open mind about the subjects of life, origins and our future and that we keep digging for more answers.
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Okie Boarder
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| Posted: Feb 16, 2014 9:08 am Post subject: |
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If anyone wants to see more about the points in the debate that Ham didn't have time to answer, this site goes through them with more detail.
http://creation.com/ham-nye-debate
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Porterwake
Wakeboarder.Commie
Joined: 28 Feb 2003
Posts: 2078
City: Wisconsin
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| Posted: Feb 16, 2014 4:09 pm Post subject: |
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Bill Nye - Facts
Ken Ham - Nothing.
The best part was when the moderator asked, "what would ever get you to change your mind?"
Bill Nye: Evidence would change my mind
Ham: Nothing would ever get me to change my mind, Bible #1!!
Game. Set. Match. Bill Nye. |
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Okie Boarder
Ladies Man
Joined: 03 Mar 2008
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City: Edmond
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| Posted: Feb 16, 2014 5:27 pm Post subject: |
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The evidence is the same between creationists and evolutionists, as far as historical artifacts and fossils we've found. They are both looking at the same information. They're just coming to a different conclusion. If you don't agree with the conclusion, just state that and why. Lying about the information isn't necessary, and it seems to weaken your stance.
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jgriffith
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Joined: 21 Mar 2012
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City: Boerne
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| Posted: Feb 17, 2014 6:07 am Post subject: |
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| Porterwake, we have very different definitions of the word fact. I think you may have a few words confused with each other: fact, theory, evidence...these are not synonyms |
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jt09
Ladies Man
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jason_ssr
Wakeboarder.com Freak
Joined: 13 Jan 2003
Posts: 4054
City: Dallas, Tx
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| Posted: Feb 19, 2014 6:35 am Post subject: |
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LMAO @ "anti-science"
wow
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TONA
My avatar is NOT a pic of me! HAHA! |
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Swass
Soul Rider
Joined: 27 Oct 2011
Posts: 427
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| Posted: Feb 26, 2014 12:51 pm Post subject: |
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After five pages, let's get a count of people who have actually changed their mind one way or the other.
Zero? Yeah, that's what I thought. What a waste of time. |
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jason_ssr
Wakeboarder.com Freak
Joined: 13 Jan 2003
Posts: 4054
City: Dallas, Tx
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| Posted: Feb 26, 2014 3:10 pm Post subject: |
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WTF? Who bumped this back up?????
...oh
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