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Okie Boarder
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 Posted: Feb 12, 2014 9:12 am Post subject: |
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| E.J. wrote: | | Okie Boarder wrote: | | microman, forgot to post last night. A few examples of Atheist turned Christian are CS Lewis, Anne Rice, and Lee Strobel. |
That list actually made me laugh out loud....made my morning....  |
Can you elaborate, please?
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Okie Boarder
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| Posted: Feb 12, 2014 9:15 am Post subject: |
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| wakeboarderdave1 wrote: | | You can put me in the Christian turned Atheist group. |
Check.
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Chad H
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| Posted: Feb 12, 2014 10:19 am Post subject: |
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Okie Boarder,
You can put me in the, looked at both sides of the table, and politely made my way towards the winning team. BTW, Happy Darwin day
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E.J.
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| Posted: Feb 12, 2014 10:26 am Post subject: |
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| Okie Boarder wrote: | | E.J. wrote: | | Okie Boarder wrote: | | microman, forgot to post last night. A few examples of Atheist turned Christian are CS Lewis, Anne Rice, and Lee Strobel. |
That list actually made me laugh out loud....made my morning.... |
Can you elaborate, please? |
Sure!
I just thought the list was amusing....still do. A short list of who's who pseudo celeb reconverts. I can't help but find that funny. I'd also find it amusing if someone put a list of Dean Koontz, John Grisham & Lindsay Czarniak as Christians turned Atheists..... (they are not, at least I don't think so, just pulled those names out of my ash)
Honestly, I had to look up Strobel.... Who knows of he was even a reconvert or just uses that as a ploy....
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Okie Boarder
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| Posted: Feb 12, 2014 10:47 am Post subject: |
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Chad H, I don't think there is really a winner or loser at this point since the origins of life ideas cannot be proven. Wouldn't you agree?
E.J., so, to you, a reconvert was never a "real" Atheist to begin with?
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microman
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| Posted: Feb 12, 2014 11:24 am Post subject: |
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| jason_ssr wrote: |
Creationist believe life originated from a diety. What has happened since is not addressed in the Bible, so has no religious debate. Evolutionists only observe what they can from fossil data, and typically do not address the origin of life.
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What does that view entail though? That all organisms on earth were created at more or less the same time and all those present today have always existed? Do you accept that every living organism shares a common ancestor? Or that some are older than others? That dinosaurs shared the earth at the same time as humans?
| Okie Boarder wrote: |
So, you're trying to say that the genes weren't already there and just appeared, and that is a distinct difference from how they originated? How do you know this and how was it observed?
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Well I wouldn't use the term "just appeared", but DNA (and the genes contained within) changes due to mutations, gene duplications, insertions, and so on. This can be observed by comparing the genomes of closely related organisms or by simply using microbes and allowing them to replicate hundreds or thousands of times and comparing the genome of those microbes to the original strain that have been preserved and frozen (and that obviously hasn't replicated).
| Okie Boarder wrote: |
Not sure I see what you're trying to say here. What evidence are you claiming is being suppressed and how does it conflict with the idea life was created in full form, then carried on from there? |
I'm saying that to believe in creationism means that you personally have to ignore and suppress the evidence that indicates common descent. Creationists don't tell people that live was started by a supernatural being and then evolved. They say they believe that god created all living things and placed humans at the top of the chain. I don't see a lot of room for evolution in that view.
| E.J. wrote: | I hope this thread continues unabated for the entire year  |
Speaking for myself, I don't think I have the endurance (or time) to withstand a 12+ page thread anymore.
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E.J.
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| Posted: Feb 12, 2014 11:28 am Post subject: |
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| Okie Boarder wrote: | | E.J., so, to you, a reconvert was never a "real" Atheist to begin with? |
I am not sure if I know what a "real" Atheist is....or a "real" Christian for that matter?
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microman
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| Posted: Feb 12, 2014 11:50 am Post subject: |
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| Okie Boarder wrote: |
E.J., so, to you, a reconvert was never a "real" Atheist to begin with? |
Like E.J. said, how do you define what a "real" atheist is? SE Cupp, a conservative commentator, claims to be an atheist yet writes books that bemoan people losing their religion. No one seriously considers her an atheist yet she uses that description (to make money) and because it's just a self-identifier no one can stop her from claiming that she is.
I also think about Francis Collins, the leader of the public portion of the human genome project back in the 90s. He claims that he became an atheist as a student and then went back to Christianity, but people such as that are often hanging around the edges of their previous religion wishing they could go back, and so they sometimes do.
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Chad H
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| Posted: Feb 12, 2014 12:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Okie Boarder wrote: | Chad H, I don't think there is really a winner or loser at this point since the origins of life ideas cannot be proven. Wouldn't you agree?
E.J., so, to you, a reconvert was never a "real" Atheist to begin with? |
I wasn't necessarily saying for origin of life, but evolution is all around us. You'll notice it when anti-biotics we use now stop working in a few years.
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Okie Boarder
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| Posted: Feb 12, 2014 12:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
Well I wouldn't use the term "just appeared", but DNA (and the genes contained within) changes due to mutations, gene duplications, insertions, and so on. This can be observed by comparing the genomes of closely related organisms or by simply using microbes and allowing them to replicate hundreds or thousands of times and comparing the genome of those microbes to the original strain that have been preserved and frozen (and that obviously hasn't replicated).
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This still doesn't sound like you are witnessing the addition of new information. As far as I know and have read about, no new genetic information has ever been observed as being produced by a mutation. I've read about duplication of information. Is that what you are referring to as new information?
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I'm saying that to believe in creationism means that you personally have to ignore and suppress the evidence that indicates common descent. Creationists don't tell people that live was started by a supernatural being and then evolved. They say they believe that god created all living things and placed humans at the top of the chain. I don't see a lot of room for evolution in that view.
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Most everything I've read from creationists that embrace science are saying that God created everything AND that evolution (micro evolution as they term it) has happened ever since.
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Okie Boarder
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| Posted: Feb 12, 2014 12:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Chad H wrote: | | Okie Boarder wrote: | Chad H, I don't think there is really a winner or loser at this point since the origins of life ideas cannot be proven. Wouldn't you agree?
E.J., so, to you, a reconvert was never a "real" Atheist to begin with? |
I wasn't necessarily saying for origin of life, but evolution is all around us. You'll notice it when anti-biotics we use now stop working in a few years. |
I agree and many of the creationists, like Ham and others, would agree...evolution IS all around us and has been happening since the beginning of life on this planet.
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Okie Boarder
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| Posted: Feb 12, 2014 12:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
I am not sure if I know what a "real" Atheist is....or a "real" Christian for that matter?
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Atheist = God does not exist
Christian = Christ follower
If a person has gone through a period of time in their life where they truly denounced the existence of God, I would say they were an Athiest during that period of time. I would imagine that would be a commonly accepted definition.
Whether the people I listed are truthful or not in their claims isn't really up to me to judge, but the claim is they went through a period of time of truly believing God did not exist. Strobel, in particular, sought out to prove the Bible wrong when his wife decided to become a Christian. At the end of his pursuit, he decided to become a Christian.
Like I said originally, there are a lot of people that seek out to prove the Bible wrong and the deeper they dig, the more they find that is right.
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jason_ssr
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| Posted: Feb 12, 2014 12:30 pm Post subject: |
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| microman wrote: | What does that view entail though? That all organisms on earth were created at more or less the same time and all those present today have always existed? Do you accept that every living organism shares a common ancestor? Or that some are older than others? That dinosaurs shared the earth at the same time as humans?
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It more addresses how than the when. The Bible says God created the beasts of the field and the creatures of the sea. It doesnt really breakdown this animal or that fish. For all we know none of the animals existing at the point of creation are the same as they appear today.
The bible doesnt address dinosaurs directly. It has references to giant creatures that seems to resemble what we call dinosaurs, but nothing significant to start a debate. No way to know if those are what we technically consider dinosaurs. Pterodactyls arent even technically dinosaurs.
Common ancestor? Its symantics I suppose. But yes, obviously I believe they all come from the same place\event so it stands to reason they they share some commonality.
As far as how long the earth has been around, the bible doesnt say. I think the bible scholars who believe they have determined it to be 6000yrs based on generational guestimates of a 2000yr old story are about as accurate as scientists coming up with eleventy-billion years based on uncalibratable presumptive dating methods. I bet its not near as old as scientists believe, and not near as new as bible scholars believe.
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Okie Boarder
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| Posted: Feb 12, 2014 12:31 pm Post subject: |
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So, I'm wondering something. For all of the questions and challenges regarding the Bible, what is the end game? Why do you want so badly to prove the Bible wrong?
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jason_ssr
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| Posted: Feb 12, 2014 12:40 pm Post subject: |
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MM, I dont giggle to myself near as much when typing with your new avatar. Bring back the glasses.
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E.J.
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| Posted: Feb 12, 2014 12:45 pm Post subject: |
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Great....whatever works for you, perfect!
So by your argument, you'd be willing to agree, there are a lot of people that seek out to prove the Bible is a factual description of history and ended up feeling like it was a bunch of horsestuff & fell away from Christianity, becoming Godless.
In a nutshell, that comment as an argument is anecdotal, correct?
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E.J.
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| Posted: Feb 12, 2014 12:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Okie Boarder wrote: | | So, I'm wondering something. For all of the questions and challenges regarding the Bible, what is the end game? Why do you want so badly to prove the Bible wrong? |
I hope/assume you don't think I am trying to prove to you that the Bible is a work of fiction....
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Okie Boarder
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| Posted: Feb 12, 2014 2:33 pm Post subject: |
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| E.J. wrote: | Great....whatever works for you, perfect!
So by your argument, you'd be willing to agree, there are a lot of people that seek out to prove the Bible is a factual description of history and ended up feeling like it was a bunch of horsestuff & fell away from Christianity, becoming Godless.
In a nutshell, that comment as an argument is anecdotal, correct? |
I'm sure there are people that come away with that conclusion.
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Okie Boarder
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| Posted: Feb 12, 2014 2:34 pm Post subject: |
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| E.J. wrote: | | Okie Boarder wrote: | | So, I'm wondering something. For all of the questions and challenges regarding the Bible, what is the end game? Why do you want so badly to prove the Bible wrong? |
I hope/assume you don't think I am trying to prove to you that the Bible is a work of fiction.... |
If you aren't, what is the purpose in questioning it? That's what I'm wondering.
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E.J.
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| Posted: Feb 12, 2014 2:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Okie Boarder wrote: | | E.J. wrote: | | Okie Boarder wrote: | | So, I'm wondering something. For all of the questions and challenges regarding the Bible, what is the end game? Why do you want so badly to prove the Bible wrong? |
I hope/assume you don't think I am trying to prove to you that the Bible is a work of fiction.... |
If you aren't, what is the purpose in questioning it? That's what I'm wondering. |
I didn't....did I?
I commented a response you made, amused me.... You ask me to explain, I did. I still think it is funny, the names and the argument.
Let me assure you, I could not care less what you believe in....assuming your beliefs do not infringe on mine.... You could think that Ms. Rice's Vampire Chronicles are true as well, doesn't bother me....and I will not try to prove to you there is no such thing as a vampire. Who am I to tell you what to have faith in, just keep it out of my yard.
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Okie Boarder
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| Posted: Feb 12, 2014 2:54 pm Post subject: |
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No, you haven't specifically questioned the Bible in this thread.
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E.J.
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| Posted: Feb 12, 2014 3:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Okie Boarder wrote: | | No, you haven't specifically questioned the Bible in this thread. |
See....for all you know I am a believer, in Mass every Sunday at 9:00 AM to appease family and to give the sign of peace, with a comfortable hug, to the attractive dark haired, olive skinned neighbor I have a crush on since I was a boy.
I'm not...but you don't know that....
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Okie Boarder
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| Posted: Feb 12, 2014 3:24 pm Post subject: |
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LOL...yep....don't know what you don't know.
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Chad H
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| Posted: Feb 12, 2014 6:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Motion to give Okie Boarder his own sub forum for any threads he decides to start. All in favor?
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brew
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| Posted: Feb 12, 2014 7:31 pm Post subject: |
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| I'll be damned. A MM sighting in a 4 page creationist debate. What's next, cameraboy coming back? Maybe the good ol days are here again.
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brew
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| Posted: Feb 12, 2014 7:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Chad H wrote: | | Motion to give Okie Boarder his own sub forum for any threads he decides to start. All in favor? |
Denied, this is the most activity we have seen in a while. An MM sighting, a jasonssr sighting, okie's bringing the crew back together.
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DRAGON88
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RampageWake
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| Posted: Feb 13, 2014 8:12 am Post subject: |
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| brew wrote: | | Chad H wrote: | | Motion to give Okie Boarder his own sub forum for any threads he decides to start. All in favor? |
Denied, this is the most activity we have seen in a while. An MM sighting, a jasonssr sighting, okie's bringing the crew back together. |
Right! I keep waiting for Swass to show up and tell them their wrong.
(yes, it was on purpose, *chuckles*)
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chavez
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Okie Boarder
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| Posted: Feb 13, 2014 8:54 am Post subject: |
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Pretty much sums it up for me...
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Last edited by Okie Boarder on Feb 13, 2014 9:10 am; edited 1 time in total |
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chavez
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| Posted: Feb 13, 2014 9:07 am Post subject: |
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Yeah, just stop there Okie. I'm sure there is nothing else to question at that point. I mean sh*t, 2,000 years of writings is likely as high as 0.00005% of the time in which this planet has been around. /thread
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Okie Boarder
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| Posted: Feb 13, 2014 9:12 am Post subject: |
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There is still plenty to explore and discover. Just because the story of creation is accepted, doesn't mean we need to stop trying to understand why and how it all came about. Science is extremely important to our advancement, and we should continue exploring all disciplines, along with teaching our kids how to explore.
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RampageWake
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| Posted: Feb 13, 2014 9:43 am Post subject: |
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| Okie Boarder wrote: | | There is still plenty to explore and discover. Just because the story of creation is accepted, doesn't mean we need to stop trying to understand why and how it all came about. Science is extremely important to our advancement, and we should continue exploring all disciplines, along with teaching our kids how to explore. |
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| Rhawn wrote: | You should have a less retarded friend read over your posts before you hit "Submit"
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RIP M.H.Legge |
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Okie Boarder
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| Posted: Feb 13, 2014 9:59 am Post subject: |
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RampageWake, yes...serious and sincere in what I said above.
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chavez
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| Posted: Feb 13, 2014 10:12 am Post subject: |
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Quite possibly my favorite image:
Paging Swass, Swass to the white courtesy grammarphone please.
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| Quote: | | That's Mr. Gingermex to you a$$hole. |
RIP MHL 04/25/1958 - 01/11/2006 |
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