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ChrisG
Wakeboarder.Commie
Joined: 24 May 2005
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City: Brentwood, CA
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 Posted: Jan 02, 2014 4:26 pm Post subject: Congrats CO! |
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Hopefully, we're right behind you.
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pyrocasto
PityDaFool Who Posts This Much
Joined: 29 Aug 2003
Posts: 5291
City: hendersonville
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| Posted: Jan 02, 2014 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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Woot Woot! Rock on!
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| eeven73 wrote: |
At least 50% of the population is retarded so I discount what they think or feel automatically. |
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E.J.
Ladies Man
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 7597
City: Mogadishu
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| Posted: Jan 02, 2014 6:03 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm interested to see if this goes as planned, if there is a mass passage of legalization throughout the States(save for a few holdouts), due to the massive tax revenue.
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Okie Boarder
Ladies Man
Joined: 03 Mar 2008
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City: Edmond
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| Posted: Jan 03, 2014 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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It would be great to see this start a wave of legalization throughout the US. After that, ALL drug laws should be struck from the books. It might be good to follow with releasing all non-violent drug offenders serving time. Maybe we can start knocking down the size of government and put a huge dent in defeating the Prison Industrial Complex.
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E.J.
Ladies Man
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 7597
City: Mogadishu
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| Posted: Jan 03, 2014 6:14 pm Post subject: |
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So, Okie... You 're cool with opiates, cocaine, methamphetamine ect being legal?
(Not even sure why I'm biting)
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E.J.
Ladies Man
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 7597
City: Mogadishu
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| Posted: Jan 03, 2014 6:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Personally, I'm cool with a test run in Oklahoma...
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Okie Boarder
Ladies Man
Joined: 03 Mar 2008
Posts: 10056
City: Edmond
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| Posted: Jan 03, 2014 6:46 pm Post subject: |
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| E.J. wrote: | So, Okie... You 're cool with opiates, cocaine, methamphetamine ect being legal?
(Not even sure why I'm biting) |
Yep. We need to stop wasting tax payer money fighting a war that we will never win, and incarcerating people for doing nothing more than getting wasted. If people want to put something in their own bodies, who are we to tell them no...it's their body, their choice.
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E.J.
Ladies Man
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 7597
City: Mogadishu
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| Posted: Jan 03, 2014 7:20 pm Post subject: |
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You know most drug crime is not possession, right? Meaning, it's property crime related to narcotics....
I assume you have a lot of history of 35 year old adults that can't get off the leaf....knocking over liquor stores and stealing DVD players out of houses....
Last edited by E.J. on Jan 03, 2014 7:31 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Okie Boarder
Ladies Man
Joined: 03 Mar 2008
Posts: 10056
City: Edmond
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| Posted: Jan 03, 2014 7:29 pm Post subject: |
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Punishment for true crimes isn't a problem. Putting a substance in one's body shouldn't be a crime.
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E.J.
Ladies Man
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 7597
City: Mogadishu
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| Posted: Jan 03, 2014 7:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Okie Boarder wrote: | | Punishment for true crimes isn't a problem. Putting a substance in one's body shouldn't be a crime. |
So allowing people to use chit that will have them giving up their kids, sucking kock and breaking in your house to pawn your chit is okay....it just what is the ramifications, that's the crime....  Fair enough.... Again, I'm 100% cool with you trying it out in Oklahoma.....
How much involvement do you have, first hand, with people who regularly recreationally use alcohol, THC, opiates, amphetamines, benzodiazapines, cocaine ect? Honest question....
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Okie Boarder
Ladies Man
Joined: 03 Mar 2008
Posts: 10056
City: Edmond
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| Posted: Jan 03, 2014 7:52 pm Post subject: |
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We already allow people to use stuff that they get addicted to an abandon all reason. Even if we didn't, what makes us think we have the right to dictate to others what they can do to their own bodies. If they commit a real crime, then pop them for that crime. Otherwise, why are we wasting our money creating criminals, packing our prisons and helping gangs, cartels, etc.?
I have quite a bit of first hand knowledge and have seen people mess up their lives and the lives around them. I've seen our system put people away for nothing more than use or possession, as well. I've also seen many people get away from addictions and turn their life around.
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E.J.
Ladies Man
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 7597
City: Mogadishu
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| Posted: Jan 03, 2014 8:35 pm Post subject: |
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| So you regularly hang with recreational heroin, cocaine and/or methamphetamine users?
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Okie Boarder
Ladies Man
Joined: 03 Mar 2008
Posts: 10056
City: Edmond
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| Posted: Jan 03, 2014 8:38 pm Post subject: |
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Not any more.
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E.J.
Ladies Man
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 7597
City: Mogadishu
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| Posted: Jan 03, 2014 8:41 pm Post subject: |
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| But you did & they were working, paying the bills, taking care if the kids...you know, living the American Dream?
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E.J.
Ladies Man
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 7597
City: Mogadishu
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| Posted: Jan 03, 2014 8:45 pm Post subject: |
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Because I want to know what you in Oklahoma are going to do with all these prostitutes and smash and grab guys, that can't hold a job and just want a fix?
Treatment is the answer, but treatment for something that you knew was a nuke bomb...
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E.J.
Ladies Man
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 7597
City: Mogadishu
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| Posted: Jan 03, 2014 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Again, 100% cool with you trying to get this on the ballot in Oklahoma... Hell, I'd pay to see it...
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E.J.
Ladies Man
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 7597
City: Mogadishu
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| Posted: Jan 03, 2014 8:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Note, I am serious... I'd be all for seeing what happens if Oklahoma made a teener $4... Guys could get a puddle for a buck...everything State sanctioned and taxed(low prices to cut out the criminal element).... Let's see what happens vs Colorado and MJ....
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jt09
Ladies Man
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 22083
City: Austin
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| Posted: Jan 04, 2014 6:10 am Post subject: |
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shouldn't strike drug laws, but possession needs to be decriminalized, and repeat offenders need to be treated, not jailed. prosecute the business of drugs, not the end user.
also, i'm very much looking forward to my trip to vail in 3 weeks. 
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Okie Boarder
Ladies Man
Joined: 03 Mar 2008
Posts: 10056
City: Edmond
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| Posted: Jan 04, 2014 6:48 am Post subject: |
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| E.J. wrote: | | But you did & they were working, paying the bills, taking care if the kids...you know, living the American Dream? |
Some of them did and some of them were slaves to their addiction.
There are also alcoholics that throw their lives away...should we make alcohol illegal again? What about prescription drugs...people get addicted to them and throw their lives away...should those be banned and illegal?
We have two choices, keep feeding the criminal aspect of this by keeping these drugs illegal or make it legal and deal with the problem aspects of addiction.
The "war on drugs" is extremely costly and has been the cause for many laws that violate personal liberty. In addition, we have citizens in our jails whose only crime is the drug itself. We're feeding a machine.
Just because we make drugs legal, doesn't mean everyone is going to run out and do them, nor does it mean we will have a bigger problem.
| Quote: | | prosecute the business of drugs, not the end user. |
Still won't work. Look how ineffective we have been eliminating cartels and stopping the supply of drugs into our country thus far.
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Okie Boarder
Ladies Man
Joined: 03 Mar 2008
Posts: 10056
City: Edmond
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| Posted: Jan 04, 2014 6:50 am Post subject: |
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E.J., I thought you were on the side of government not telling us what we can do with our bodies. Does that only apply to ending pregnancies, or do you truly believe government (or another group of people) shouldn't be able to dictate what we do with our own bodies?
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E.J.
Ladies Man
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 7597
City: Mogadishu
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| Posted: Jan 04, 2014 7:22 am Post subject: |
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| Okie Boarder wrote: | There are also alcoholics that throw their lives away...should we make alcohol illegal again? What about prescription drugs...people get addicted to them and throw their lives away...should those be banned and illegal?
Just because we make drugs legal, doesn't mean everyone is going to run out and do them, nor does it mean we will have a bigger problem.
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People throw their lives away for all different reasons, if you do not see the different ramifications of drug use like thc, alcohol, caffeine ect vs opiates, amphetamines, cocaine ect....we are just on different planets....and that is okay.
You're aware that prescription drugs are illegal, right? To access them legally, you need a prescription, you have to go to a special place to get them, you are only afforded so much ect?
Yes, I think that MANY more people would experiment with any drug considered legal. It will happen with pot in Colorado, watch and see. There are MANY people who do not use a substance for the reason that it is not legal and/or accessible without crossing a line.
I cannot stress enough that I would love to see how this works out in Oklahoma, I just wouldn't want it to happen where I live.
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E.J.
Ladies Man
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 7597
City: Mogadishu
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| Posted: Jan 04, 2014 7:27 am Post subject: |
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| Okie Boarder wrote: | | E.J., I thought you were on the side of government not telling us what we can do with our bodies. Does that only apply to ending pregnancies, or do you truly believe government (or another group of people) shouldn't be able to dictate what we do with our own bodies? |
Are you really that concrete in your thinking?
Maybe you are, which is a bit amusing and why I took the signature quote....
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Okie Boarder
Ladies Man
Joined: 03 Mar 2008
Posts: 10056
City: Edmond
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| Posted: Jan 04, 2014 8:40 am Post subject: |
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I just don't think we have the right to dictate what people can and cannot do to their own bodies. True freedom and liberty is based upon letting people decide for themselves what they consider to be good or bad for them. If you're going to support limiting this for something you favor, you shouldn't be surprised when another group tries to limit something you are against.
Yes, I am that concrete, because it is inconsistent to favor limiting a person's choice on one hand, but be adamently against it on the other. That's one of the main philosophies that has sickened me with our political system today.
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E.J.
Ladies Man
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 7597
City: Mogadishu
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| Posted: Jan 04, 2014 9:12 am Post subject: |
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| Fair enough, we can disagree.
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jt09
Ladies Man
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 22083
City: Austin
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| Posted: Jan 04, 2014 11:58 am Post subject: |
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| Okie Boarder wrote: | | Quote: | | prosecute the business of drugs, not the end user. |
Still won't work. Look how ineffective we have been eliminating cartels and stopping the supply of drugs into our country thus far. |
not trying to win the war on drugs, just trying to keep people out of jail. possessing a drug shouldn't land someone behind bars.
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eeven73
PityDaFool Who Posts This Much
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 5377
City: Halfway
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| Posted: Jan 04, 2014 12:43 pm Post subject: |
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Personally, I WOULD agree with legalize thoughts if we(society/tax payers) were not on the hook for the problems. If people really were accountable for there mistakes why would I give a Bubb Rubb if someone wants to mess themselves up. But, that's not the way it works and the flaw in Okies logic. Though he will never accept that.
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Okie Boarder
Ladies Man
Joined: 03 Mar 2008
Posts: 10056
City: Edmond
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| Posted: Jan 04, 2014 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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| jt09 wrote: | | Okie Boarder wrote: | | Quote: | | prosecute the business of drugs, not the end user. |
Still won't work. Look how ineffective we have been eliminating cartels and stopping the supply of drugs into our country thus far. |
not trying to win the war on drugs, just trying to keep people out of jail. possessing a drug shouldn't land someone behind bars. |
I would agree with your last statement.
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Okie Boarder
Ladies Man
Joined: 03 Mar 2008
Posts: 10056
City: Edmond
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| Posted: Jan 04, 2014 4:37 pm Post subject: |
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A couple statements I would agree with...
| Quote: | Portugal decriminalized drugs, and overall usage went down as well as drug related crime.
In America, the prohibition era saw the greatest growth of crime and alcohol consumption. There will never be a "utopia", but criminalizing things that harm no one only pushes us further away from utopia. The goal is to always push forward for a more idealistic society, even though it is impossible to ever actually reach it. |
| Quote: | | The greatest conservative thinkers now and in the past favor(ed) legalization: Buckley, Friedman, even Glen Beck to name a few. The "War on Drugs" is a complete failure. A COMPLETE failure. It's destroyed far more lives than it's ever helped and we've paid BILLIONS for that cockeyed result. But, as I've said here before, it's never going to be logic or common sense that will change the law. Governments insatiable need for money is what's changing the law.Period. |
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Okie Boarder
Ladies Man
Joined: 03 Mar 2008
Posts: 10056
City: Edmond
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| Posted: Jan 04, 2014 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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| eeven73 wrote: | | Personally, I WOULD agree with legalize thoughts if we(society/tax payers) were not on the hook for the problems. If people really were accountable for there mistakes why would I give a Bubb Rubb if someone wants to mess themselves up. But, that's not the way it works and the flaw in Okies logic. Though he will never accept that. |
So, you're fine being on the hook for the "war" that is hundreds of millions of dollars a year, but you have a problem being on the hook for "problems" that might be in the singles or double digit millions per year? I guess you like starting a fire with hundred dollar bills?
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nmballa
Wakeboarder.com Freak
Joined: 14 Jan 2003
Posts: 3906
City: Milwaukee
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| Posted: Jan 04, 2014 10:07 pm Post subject: |
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| E.J. wrote: | So, Okie... You 're cool with opiates, cocaine, methamphetamine ect being legal?
(Not even sure why I'm biting) |
Prohibition is what got us in to this mess. Every time we classify something it has led us down a hole. BRB, coca was outlawed, this led to cocaine, which led to crack, which led to meth. Opium led us to heroin, further on to a fregan oxy, which has spiraled back in to a dirty heroin that is killing kids off. MDMA, perfectly safe, now we have bath salt fakes killing kids .
Since the drug war kicked off and everything that couldn't be taxed was made illegal the misery, poverty, and deaths have not gone down. They have increased 10 fold.
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jt09 wrote:
I used to get all happy when the girlie would make a colonic appointment. That meant she was going to be breaking out the "fine china" soon.
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=509037985&ref=profile |
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eeven73
PityDaFool Who Posts This Much
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 5377
City: Halfway
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| Posted: Jan 04, 2014 10:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Okie Boarder wrote: | | eeven73 wrote: | | Personally, I WOULD agree with legalize thoughts if we(society/tax payers) were not on the hook for the problems. If people really were accountable for there mistakes why would I give a Bubb Rubb if someone wants to mess themselves up. But, that's not the way it works and the flaw in Okies logic. Though he will never accept that. |
So, you're fine being on the hook for the "war" that is hundreds of millions of dollars a year, but you have a problem being on the hook for "problems" that might be in the singles or double digit millions per year? I guess you like starting a fire with hundred dollar bills? |
Treatment, property crimes, foster children, ......etc are a problem on the magnitude of "double digit millions per year"? Ok 
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nmballa
Wakeboarder.com Freak
Joined: 14 Jan 2003
Posts: 3906
City: Milwaukee
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| Posted: Jan 04, 2014 10:19 pm Post subject: |
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EJ, I have a newsflash for ya. Its not just grab and smash criminals and whores doing drugs. It rolls from every level. Hell, George Bush did coke. The folks giving up on their kids and robbing, yeah they are the lowest denominator.
But in reality, in every major city, in just about every other bar, on any given Friday or Saturday night someone is ripping a line, eating a pill, or smoking something. Drugs are an every day part of this society. Only thing is folks like you have been spoon fed by the media that it is only the poor and destitute that use. Pull back the veil and welcome to the real world.
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jt09 wrote:
I used to get all happy when the girlie would make a colonic appointment. That meant she was going to be breaking out the "fine china" soon.
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=509037985&ref=profile |
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nmballa
Wakeboarder.com Freak
Joined: 14 Jan 2003
Posts: 3906
City: Milwaukee
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| Posted: Jan 04, 2014 10:27 pm Post subject: |
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| eeven73 wrote: | | Okie Boarder wrote: | | eeven73 wrote: | | Personally, I WOULD agree with legalize thoughts if we(society/tax payers) were not on the hook for the problems. If people really were accountable for there mistakes why would I give a Bubb Rubb if someone wants to mess themselves up. But, that's not the way it works and the flaw in Okies logic. Though he will never accept that. |
So, you're fine being on the hook for the "war" that is hundreds of millions of dollars a year, but you have a problem being on the hook for "problems" that might be in the singles or double digit millions per year? I guess you like starting a fire with hundred dollar bills? |
Treatment, property crimes, foster children, ......etc are a problem on the magnitude of "double digit millions per year"? Ok |
Eh reality check, not hundreds of millions per year wasted on prohibition. Try closer to the tune of 20+ billion. So yeah, take that 20+ billion and apply it towards treatment, education, etc.
_________________
jt09 wrote:
I used to get all happy when the girlie would make a colonic appointment. That meant she was going to be breaking out the "fine china" soon.
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=509037985&ref=profile |
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Okie Boarder
Ladies Man
Joined: 03 Mar 2008
Posts: 10056
City: Edmond
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| Posted: Jan 05, 2014 6:56 am Post subject: |
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| eeven73 wrote: | | Okie Boarder wrote: | | eeven73 wrote: | | Personally, I WOULD agree with legalize thoughts if we(society/tax payers) were not on the hook for the problems. If people really were accountable for there mistakes why would I give a Bubb Rubb if someone wants to mess themselves up. But, that's not the way it works and the flaw in Okies logic. Though he will never accept that. |
So, you're fine being on the hook for the "war" that is hundreds of millions of dollars a year, but you have a problem being on the hook for "problems" that might be in the singles or double digit millions per year? I guess you like starting a fire with hundred dollar bills? |
Treatment, property crimes, foster children, ......etc are a problem on the magnitude of "double digit millions per year"? Ok |
That wasn't meant to be taken as literal figures, but the cost of the "problems" that would come with legalizing would be a fraction of what we're spending now on the war on drugs and the cost of imprisonment. That's the point.
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Okie Boarder
Ladies Man
Joined: 03 Mar 2008
Posts: 10056
City: Edmond
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| Posted: Jan 05, 2014 7:02 am Post subject: |
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| nmballa wrote: | | eeven73 wrote: | | Okie Boarder wrote: | | eeven73 wrote: | | Personally, I WOULD agree with legalize thoughts if we(society/tax payers) were not on the hook for the problems. If people really were accountable for there mistakes why would I give a Bubb Rubb if someone wants to mess themselves up. But, that's not the way it works and the flaw in Okies logic. Though he will never accept that. |
So, you're fine being on the hook for the "war" that is hundreds of millions of dollars a year, but you have a problem being on the hook for "problems" that might be in the singles or double digit millions per year? I guess you like starting a fire with hundred dollar bills? |
Treatment, property crimes, foster children, ......etc are a problem on the magnitude of "double digit millions per year"? Ok |
Eh reality check, not hundreds of millions per year wasted on prohibition. Try closer to the tune of 20+ billion. So yeah, take that 20+ billion and apply it towards treatment, education, etc. |
How about taking a fraction of that to treat the issue and put the rest back in the pockets of the people.
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