Something to think about...

[Okie Boarder]

Even if this may seem extreme and impossible, it is something worth understanding.

[Neognosis]

I'm not going to play that. Because I am pretty sure that it is a bunch of bullsiht that will actually make me more stupid.

Spent part of today at the gun club arguing with a cadre of idiots who are SURE that they are going to have to surrender their guns in a few months. They actually have been convinced by other idiots that the new law going into effect banning the SALE Of assault rifles also means that they have to turn theirs in. Even though they don't.

They seem very eager to believe things based on exaggerated rumors, and they feed off each other constantly, with almost no regard to the reality of the situation.

So fun to watch them get up and swear that they are going to break the law next month by refusing to turn in their ARs. f'ing high entertainment, it is.

[Okie Boarder]

So, you have absolutely no concern about all the things going on right now?

[pyrocasto]

Very, very, very little. I went to the gun store and firing range last week, I thought they were going out of business. A bunch of idiots who think the government is banning guns went and bought out all the stores, and now they cant even get restock shipped. They had room for over 300 guns on the wall and in the glass, and they only had MAYBE 20 left. RIDICULOUS! Couldnt even get any .22 mini mags for my pistol, sold out. God I cant even shoot much ammo now because I couldnt freaking restock. Is this the Government's doing? No. It's a bunch of retards to get paranoid over BS. No different than someone thinking zombie apocalypse was here when a man ate another mans face off on bath salts...

[Nor*Cal]

You guys live in friendlier states than I do. National legislation is likely minor at best and won't catch up to current CA law. However, our leaders here are moving the ball further, including legislation that eliminates grandfathering and includes tax credits for the required turn in of guns.

Lots of FUD but not to be totally dismissed.

[jgriffith]

Neognosis, Obamas team is proposing to make non-registered "assault weapons" illegal. Can you understand why that would upset people that previously owned such weapons legally? What about the ban on re-sale? When they were allowed to sell before?

[jgriffith]

I watched as much as I could...Okie, I wish you would have created a visual for the quadrillion figure when you made that video, that would have been cool

[jason_ssr]

I observe that we buy into slippery slope areguments because more often than not they are true. We generally do not make bad decisions in violent 180 degree swings. It is always gradual. However, anyone that points out one of these gradual steps is labelled an extremist nut whose thoughts are invalid based on the rules of debate.

Now, to the conspiracy theorists point, let suppose you were the president. If you felt like the US economy was being propped up artificially, knew the day was coming when it fails publically, and felt it was best for the citizenship to be disarmed before they all kill themselves over goods, how would you do it? Would you send the army door to door and start a revolution (as short lived as it would be)? Or, would you create govt contracts so over the top that it would dry up ammo stocks, enact gun laws that sqeeze the free movement of arms among the law abiding, restrict the most efficient weapons from the public, maybe a registration so you have an accurate inventory?

Im not a big conspiracy theorist, so I think the ammo shortage is a combination of govt contracts and bad gun law proposition mixed with the knee-jerk reaction of the public. Supply will be low until the govt contracts are filled, and demand is artificially high due to the politics around guns. While I do not think the above conspiracy argument is happening, I do not discount it as absurd.

[Okie Boarder]

pyrocasto, this is about a lot more than shortage of ammo and gun bans. There is definitely a growing concern about the economic situation paired with the recent government activities of massive ammunition purchases, large purchases of military style vehicles, the various actions being taken further restricting people's rights, and the curious situtation around the drone usage. It definitely seems to have a lot of people on edge.

jgriffith, LOL! Did you watch enough to see the idea on what actions could be taken. I thought that was a little different than you might typically see in these kinds of videos.

[Partyb]

Okie, is there not a better forum to push whatever agenda you are pushing than wb.com non-wakeboarding?

[pet575]

"All those new empty prisons in our country that are just sitting there are for all of us!" -conspiracy theorists in 1996.

[jt09]

if you're not worried about what the dhs is doing, you aren't paying attention, or simply don't care.

[jgriffith]

[Faust]

Not sure if jgriffith is kidding but that is very similar to the first thing that came to my mind. Turning the weapons on US citizens was about the furthest from my mind. Even more-so after listening to that video.

[jt09]

We are Preparing for Massive Civil War,� Says DHS Informant
Posted by Dominique de Kevelioc de Bailleul on May 03, 2012

In a riveting interview on TruNews Radio, Wednesday, private investigator Doug Hagmann said high-level, reliable sources told him the U.S. Department of Homeland Security (DHS) is preparing for massive civil war� in America.

Folks, we’re getting ready for one massive economic collapse,� Hagmann told TruNews host Rick Wiles.

We have problems . . . The federal government is preparing for civil uprising,� he added, so every time you hear about troop movements, every time you hear about movements of military equipment, the militarization of the police, the buying of the ammunition, all of this is . . . they (DHS) are preparing for a massive uprising.�

Hagmann goes on to say that his sources tell him the concerns of the DHS stem from a collapse of the U.S. dollar and the hyperinflation a collapse in the value of the world’s primary reserve currency implies to a nation of 311 million Americans, who, for the significant portion of the population, is armed.

Uprisings in Greece is, indeed, a problem, but an uprising of armed Americans becomes a matter of serious national security, a point addressed in a recent report by the Pentagon and highlighted as a vulnerability and threat to the U.S. during war-game exercises at the Department of Defense last year, according to one of the DoD’s war-game participants, Jim Rickards, author of Currency Wars: The Making of the Next Global Crisis.

Through his sources, Hagmann confirmed Rickards’ ongoing thesis of a fear of a U.S. dollar collapse at the hands of the Chinese (U.S. treasury bond holders of approximately $1 trillion) and, possibly, the Russians (threatening to launch a gold-backed ruble as an attractive alternative to the U.S. dollar) in retaliation for aggressive U.S. foreign policy initiatives against China’s and Russia’s strategic allies Iran and Syria.

The one source that we have I’ve known since 1979,� Hagmann continued. He started out as a patrol officer and currently he is now working for a federal agency under the umbrella of the Department of Homeland Security; he’s in a position to know what policies are being initiated, what policies are being planned at this point, and he’s telling us right now”look, what you’re seeing is just the tip of the iceberg. We are preparing, we, meaning the government, we are preparing for a massive civil war in this country.�

There’s no hyperbole here,� he added, echoing Trends Research Institute’s Founder Gerald Celente’s forecast of last year. Celente expects a collapse of the U.S. dollar and riots in America some time this year.

Since Celente’s ˜Civil War’ prediction of last year, executive orders NDAA and National Defense Resources Preparedness were signed into law by President Obama, which are both politically damaging actions taken by a sitting president.

And most recently, requests made by the DHS for the procurement of 450 million rounds of hollow-point ammunition only fuels speculation of an upcoming tragic event expected on American soil.

These major events, as shocking to the American people as they are, have taken place during an election year.

Escalating preparatory activities by the executive branch and DHS throughout the last decade”from the Patriot Act, to countless executive orders drafted to suspend (or strip) American civil liberties are just the beginning� of the nightmare to come, Hagmann said.

He added, It’s going to get so much worse toward the election, and I’m not even sure we’re going to have an election in this country. It’s going to be that bad, and this, as well, is coming from my sources. But one source in particular said, ˜look, you don’t understand how bad it is.’ This stuff is real; these people, the Department of Homeland Security (DHS), they are ready to fight the American people.�

TruNews˜ Wiles asked Hagmann: who does the DHS expect to fight, in particular? Another North versus South, the Yankees against the Confederates? Hagmann stated the situation is far worse than a struggle between any two factions within the U.S.; it’s an anticipated nationwide emergency event centered on the nation’s currency.

What they [DHS] are expecting, and again, this is according to my sources, what they’re expecting is the un-sustainability of the American dollar,� Hagmann said. And we know for a fact that we can no longer service our debt. There’s going to be a period of hyperinflation . . . the dollar will be worthless . . . The economic collapse will be so severe, people won’t be ready for this.�
http://www.beaconequity.com/we-are-preparing-for-massive-civil-war-says-dhs-informant-2012-05-03/

[jt09]

Major General Jerry Curry, USA (Ret.):

The Social Security Administration (SSA) confirms that it is purchasing 174 thousand rounds of hollow point bullets to be delivered to 41 locations in major cities across the U.S. No one has yet said what the purpose of these purchases is, though we are led to believe that they will be used only in an emergency to counteract and control civil unrest. Those against whom the hollow point bullets are to be used — those causing the civil unrest — must be American citizens; since the SSA has never been used overseas to help foreign countries maintain control of their citizens.

What would be the target of these 174, 000 rounds of hollow point bullets? It can’t simply be to control demonstrators or rioters. Hollow point bullets are so lethal that the Geneva Convention does not allow their use on the battle field in time of war. Hollow point bullets don’t just stop or hurt people, they penetrate the body, spread out, fragment and cause maximum damage to the body’s organs. Death often follows.

Potentially each hollow nose bullet represents a dead American. If so, why would the U.S. government want the SSA to kill 174,000 of our citizens, even during a time of civil unrest? Or is the purpose to kill 174,000 of the nation’s military and replace them with Department of Homeland Security (DHS) special security forces, forces loyal to the Administration, not to the Constitution?

All my life I’ve handled firearms. When a young boy growing up on my father’s farm in Pennsylvania Dad’s first rule of firearms training was, “Never point a gun at someone, in fun or otherwise, unless you intend to shoot them. If you shoot someone, shoot to kill.” I’ve never forgotten his admonition. It stayed with me through my Boy Scout training, when I enlisted in the army as a Private to fight in the Korea
War, during my days as a Ranger and Paratrooper and throughout my thirty-four year military career.

If this were only a one time order of ammunition, it could easily be dismissed. But there is a pattern here. The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) has ordered 46,000 rounds of hollow point ammunition. Notice that all of these purchases are for the lethal hollow nose bullets. These bullets are not being purchased and stored for squirrel or coyote hunting. This is serious ammunition manufactured to be used for serious purposes.
http://dailycaller.com/2012/08/17/who-does-the-government-intend-to-shoot/#ixzz24IzsCkmQ

[jt09]

the forbes article referenced in the video:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/ralphbenko/2013/03/11/1-6-billion-rounds-of-ammo-for-homeland-security-its-time-for-a-national-conversation/

[jt09]

Is there any reasonable explanation for these parts orders, first from Sig Sauer, now from H&K? Is this just a way for DHS to buy all the “parts” for guns, and them assemble them into complete guns, without saying that they are buying more guns?
...
On Monday, the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) posted details of a no bid contract with weapons manufacturer Sig Sauer, worth $4.5 million over the next five years.

The contract is identical to the one DHS announced last week with Heckler & Koch.

Both contracts are for $900,000 worth of “replacement parts” a year, for weapons used by DHS agents.

While it is hard to imagine how or why a domestic agency could anticipate firing their weapons enough over the next five years to need $1.8 million annually in replacement parts, the DHS documents clearly state their need to “stock sufficient quantities of parts needed to fulfill the quantities of parts anticipated to be ordered.”

[jt09]

Is there any reasonable explanation for these parts orders, first from Sig Sauer, now from H&K? Is this just a way for DHS to buy all the “parts” for guns, and them assemble them into complete guns, without saying that they are buying more guns?
...
On Monday, the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) posted details of a no bid contract with weapons manufacturer Sig Sauer, worth $4.5 million over the next five years.

The contract is identical to the one DHS announced last week with Heckler & Koch.

Both contracts are for $900,000 worth of “replacement parts” a year, for weapons used by DHS agents.

While it is hard to imagine how or why a domestic agency could anticipate firing their weapons enough over the next five years to need $1.8 million annually in replacement parts, the DHS documents clearly state their need to “stock sufficient quantities of parts needed to fulfill the quantities of parts anticipated to be ordered.”
http://www.theburningplatform.com/?p=50991

[Neognosis]

the only points you have are the points about drones and the patriot act.

The rest of it is just silly.

[Okie Boarder]

So, you think that $1.6B in ammo is also no big deal? Over 2,700 mine resistant, bullet proof assault vehicles is also no big deal?

[Okie Boarder]

[Okie Boarder]

Fitting...

[NKCrider]

Okie Boarder, you spent a couple hours on abovetopsecret.com lately?

[Okie Boarder]

Nope...never heard of it.

[NKCrider]

Check it out, site forums are fully of crazys and its a great time waster at work

[brew]

http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/03/19/17373761-assault-weapons-ban-dropped-from-senate-bill?lite&ocid=msnhp&pos=1

Is this another ploy to lull us back into being comfortable? I'm confused at this point about what I should be outraged about and what I should be okay with.

[Okie Boarder]

[brew]

I've been comfortable, I'm asking you what the play is here. The assault weapon ban portion has been removed from the bill, so what are they trying to do to us now? Are they trying to run the price down, so they can buy all the guns and ammo cheaper than what they are paying now and then they'll throw the ban back in later? Are they trying to lull us back to sleep? I need some conspiracy theory help here.

[Okie Boarder]

LOL! You shouldn't be comfortable...even the background check and registration proposals, which are still being pushed through, violate your rights.

My take is they are going to look for a way they can still get a ban through. I don't think they've totally given up.

[brew]

[jgriffith]

[jt09]

just to clarify, i wasn't referring to the dhs purchasing all that ammo specifically.

dhs has enveloped many gov't agencies and been given a ridiculous amount of power via backdoor/hidden/sneaky acts of congress ("acts" probably isn't the correct term, but "things congress has done").

[Okie Boarder]

I'm starting to see some stories pop up that DHS is going to let Saudi passengers get "trusted traveler" status. Here's one I was able to find on a mainstream news outlet. The first I saw was on Personal Liberty...not really what many folks consider mainstream. Seems like an odd move considering where the 9/11 attackers came from.

[Faust]