Why ban it?

Okie Boarder · Ladies Man Joined: 03 Mar 2008 Posts: 10056 City: Edmond

So, because it's illegal you would be fine with a type of therapy that is "abusive"? Or am I understanding you wrong?

Okie Boarder · Ladies Man Joined: 03 Mar 2008 Posts: 10056 City: Edmond

jason_ssr · Posted: Oct 02, 2012 4:23 am Post subject:

Neognosis · Ladies Man Joined: 13 Jan 2003 Posts: 17617 City: Webster

Tbonez · Posted: Oct 02, 2012 5:03 am Post subject:

Instead of banning they should have provided guidelines and regulation...What they did is trample patient rights, parents rights and come dangerously close to tampering with religious freedoms.

What if the underage individual WANTS this therapy? They didnt ban the forcing of this therapy on an individual they banned the therapy itself.

They can debunk any type of therapy they want but do you know what type of therapy that works? The type that you, as the patient, wants to work and is willing to put effort into. The patients desire to be rid of mental anguish and or be healed is 50% of the battle. The state basically eliminated a therapeutic option for patients that could help. I do agree that any type of forced therapy is almost assured to fail. They did eliminate the option for individuals that wanted it and saw it as a viable option.

The state is once again saying that they know what is better for you and or your child than you do. There is no reason to ban just regulate.

nmballa · Posted: Oct 02, 2012 5:03 am Post subject:

Kind of off topic but its kind of interesting regarding the right hand/left hand thing. I am blind in my right eye but still right handed. But over the years I have become left side dominant. I still have more coordination in my right hand but have more strength in my left arm and leg and tend to lead with both when something requires power. When it requires coordination I fall back to my right side. Damn I wish I was ambidextrous.

chavez · RIP MHL 04/25/1958 - 01/11/2006

Neognosis · Ladies Man Joined: 13 Jan 2003 Posts: 17617 City: Webster

Okie Boarder · Ladies Man Joined: 03 Mar 2008 Posts: 10056 City: Edmond

Neognosis · Ladies Man Joined: 13 Jan 2003 Posts: 17617 City: Webster

jgriffith · Posted: Oct 02, 2012 10:18 am Post subject:

It should be up to the parents, not the State, whether treating a person's sexuality IS damaging.

Unless I missed it, I am not aware of anyone stating what the techniques are? Thanks to Partyb, I was able to use this cool google thing to try to find out but that didnt really help any.

Chavez, you said it was child abuse, please explain why it is child abuse? What about the treatment is child abuse? If telling to the child that being gay is wrong and they should not be gay, then I think millions of parents should be prosecuted for this "child abuse"...

Okie Boarder · Ladies Man Joined: 03 Mar 2008 Posts: 10056 City: Edmond

E.J. · Ladies Man Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Posts: 7597 City: Mogadishu

So Okie & jgriff,

Honestly, would you feel the same about parents sending children to a group of therapists to treat the straight out of them? You know, treating kids who thought they were straight, but their parents were sure the kids were gay…… That you’d be okay with these parents forcing these kids to attend “therapy” which would let them know that how they feel, who they are, is wrong, “You’re gay kid….face it.” Making some 16 year old high school boy to go week in, week out, to this person that kept telling them, quit liking girls, you like boys.... You'd think that is okay?

Okie Boarder · Ladies Man Joined: 03 Mar 2008 Posts: 10056 City: Edmond

I wouldn't agree with it and wouldn't do it to my child, but I don't think it is my place to say what they do with their child. I also don't think it should be the state's place to say, either.

jgriffith · Posted: Oct 02, 2012 11:12 am Post subject:

E.J., I wouldnt think it was ok, but I think it should be their right as parents. There are tons of things parents do that I dont agree with. However, it is their decision, not the States.

I also dont agree with sending kids to this type of therapy (treating the gay out of them); however, I dont think it should be banned.

E.J. · Ladies Man Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Posts: 7597 City: Mogadishu

Seeing that this type of therapy has been disavowed by mainstream mental health organizations and they support the legislation, I’m okay with the government getting involved.

We can agree to disagree....

Just because someone is a parent, doesn't mean that what they do with their children is their business and their business alone....and thank Allah for that.

Neognosis · Ladies Man Joined: 13 Jan 2003 Posts: 17617 City: Webster

nmballa · Posted: Oct 02, 2012 5:55 pm Post subject:

Okie Boarder · Ladies Man Joined: 03 Mar 2008 Posts: 10056 City: Edmond

Neognosis, LOL...never a direct answer from you. "Well, maybe I agree with it as long as it is in line with my way of thinking, which I won't divulge, because if I do I might have to stand by a certain distinct belief."

If the treatment was exactly what is described in the article (which chavez clearly has stated is abusive), would you be ok with or want to ban for a treatment for alcoholism or drug addiction.

Can you actually provide a direct and concise answer without trying to talk in circles and leave yourself an out?

Mr. Top Hat · Outlaw Joined: 03 Sep 2005 Posts: 237

Okie Boarder, how can you actually compare drug addiction and alcoholism to homosexuality? Alcoholics and drug addicts have a real, physical problem, homosexuals only have a problem in the eyes of people who do not approve of homosexuality. To compare an addict becoming clean to a gay person becoming straight is absolutely ridiculous.

Since you have compared the two in multiple posts I'm actually curious to see where you stand on this. Would you rather your child be a homosexual or an alcoholic? What about a coke head? Pill head? How about a cigarette smoker?

Neognosis · Ladies Man Joined: 13 Jan 2003 Posts: 17617 City: Webster

Sorry Okie, I give you a direct answer all the time, you just don't like the answers because they depend on other factors. You know, the same way that life is not black and white.

You oversimplify things and then wonder why you don't get an oversimplified response.

The article doesn't describe the treatment enough for me to make a judgement about whether it would be appropriate for alcohol and drug addiction, so I can't make a black and white statement about it. I'm also not a psychiatrist or psychologist, how can I determine what is effective or not?

However, if you are going to keep pushing me for a black and white answer based on things I have not expertise in, I would have to say that I would only endorse treatment for drug and booze addiction that is approved by people who do that for a living... and this treatment does not seem to be in that category. So no.

jgriffith · Posted: Oct 03, 2012 5:06 am Post subject:

The reason it is banned (in most peoples eyes) is that it is a form of child abuse, correct? So is it child abuse for parents to encourage their kids not to be gay and to say being gay is wrong?

If this therepy is child abuse to "treat" gay, but not to treat other things, then the child abuse must be the gay is bad part and the parents should be prosecuted.

Neognosis · Ladies Man Joined: 13 Jan 2003 Posts: 17617 City: Webster

Okie Boarder · Ladies Man Joined: 03 Mar 2008 Posts: 10056 City: Edmond

Mr. Top Hat, Homosexuality and addiction can both be viewed as "wrong" by some parents and from that standpoint I was trying to understand how they would be viewed relative to some form of "drastic" pshycotherapy. The similarity isn't in the act as much as it is the reaction to the "act", and that's what I was asking about. I'm not trying to compare the two "acts", just the reaction and the methods of therapy to understand how people feel about it.

Okie Boarder · Ladies Man Joined: 03 Mar 2008 Posts: 10056 City: Edmond

Nor*Cal · Ladies Man Joined: 12 Jan 2003 Posts: 9479 City: Sac

I understand that I live in a progressive state, I've never understood homophobia or even racism as it was not something I've ever really seen or heard in person (Sacramento is one of the most diverse cities in the country). This conversation seems so odd to me from the sense that I honestly do not understand that people think they can treat homosexuality.

I can understand not wanting your kid to have sex until old enough and in a stable relationship due to the repercussions of that act, emotionally, disease, pregnancy, ect... But I cannot understand a parent wanting to brainwash their kid straight like this is some sort of mental condition that should be treated.

goofyboy · Posted: Oct 04, 2012 4:38 am Post subject:

and the first lawsuit is filed.

http://gma.yahoo.com/student-got-gay-cure-sues-california-over-law-180012521--abc-news-health.html

jgriffith · Posted: Oct 04, 2012 5:02 am Post subject:

Nor*Cal, Neognosis, Mr. Top Hat, chavez,

So what do you think of Aaron Blitzer and other people that have been cured of being gay using this therapy?

Neognosis · Ladies Man Joined: 13 Jan 2003 Posts: 17617 City: Webster

You can't cure being gay any more than you can cure being heterosexual.

I don't know anything about this Aaron Blitzer, but if he is a person who claims that he was "cured of gay," I would counter that a person can claim whatever they want and modify their behavior if they wanted, but I call bullsiht if someone claims that their sexuality was changed.

I know a woman who was raped and as a result, she finds sex to be very undesirable and a frightening and negative experience. Was she "cured of being straight" by her attack?

No, of course not.

Rhawn · Posted: Oct 04, 2012 9:38 am Post subject:

Mr. Top Hat · Outlaw Joined: 03 Sep 2005 Posts: 237

jgriffith · Posted: Oct 04, 2012 10:15 am Post subject:

Rhawn, that really makes me sad. After all the time I have spent trying to impress you, for you to think of me as a moron really hurts.

The article says that this kid claims he got a gay cure. I didnt make that up, its in the title of the article.

Neognosis · Ladies Man Joined: 13 Jan 2003 Posts: 17617 City: Webster

Some people claim that the hear god telling them to blow up buildings with innocent people in them.

Meaning that what someone claims means little to me.

Like every politician or celebrity who claims to be straight and to fight against the acceptance of homosexuality, but then ends up blowing some dude in a toilet.

What's the story with this Aaron Blitzer guy? Idk. I don't think you can change your sexuality, but we have evidence that strongly suggests that sexuality is not as black and white as we think, with many people falling in somewhere on a sliding scale.

And people can be celibate, and gay men often can have sex with women... so is Aaron Blitzer cured of his fagginess if he is celibate or has sex with a woman?

(come on... we all know he's going to go back to picturing Brad Pitt in the near future.. LULZ)

Okie Boarder · Ladies Man Joined: 03 Mar 2008 Posts: 10056 City: Edmond

Does the scientific community consider a person gay if they haven't had a sexual encounter, but just consider themselves attracted to the same sex?

Nor*Cal · Ladies Man Joined: 12 Jan 2003 Posts: 9479 City: Sac

If warlords can program children to kill, why can't you program someone who is a 1 or 2 on the Kinsey Scale to be a 0 or asexual? Just because it can be done doesn't mean it is right or does not come with other psychological neuroses later in life.