Help on Invert mental blocks

k9fxr · Outlaw Joined: 07 Mar 2003 Posts: 199 City: MI

I can't get myself to commit to a HS backroll, everything seems to be going too fast,
anyone have any advice to get thru this?
Boat speed, etc

QNev · Posted: May 27, 2006 11:08 pm Post subject:

Lots of people say not to let go of the rope because it causes a bad habit. Go into the wake at normal speed (21-22ish) and pop the wake and drop the rope as you flip. It won't hurt quite as much as going full speed and it will help you get the feeling of it. Don't make a habit of it because it will teach you NOT to commit, which isn't a good thing.

holdsworth · Posted: May 28, 2006 5:53 am Post subject:

mental blocks aren't much of a big deall to me anymore, thanks to pole vaulting. i've had tons of pressure lately because of districts and regionals. they both had me worried a LOT because i am weird about wind direction and speed. you just need to focus on what you need to do and forget that anything else is going on. you just have to go through with it. if you do, you will get used to the trick and land it every time and also learn to do the same thing with other inverts. just look in other threads and read the step-by-step tips on the backroll, get it in your head, go out and throw it right.

my step-by-step; forget about everything else, including the thoughts like "oh, this is going to hurt," or "everything is going 100 friggin mph." just go through with confidence Very Happy

. hold a progressive edge to the wake and keep on your heels, but not too hard. you will want to keep that edge through the whole trick, think about when you land, you still want to have that slight edge. when you hit the wake, don't really jump, but let it throw the trick for you. lean back to start the rotation and everything else will pretty much come easy. spot the landing and bend your knees and you've got it.

like i said, you will find many threads on the backroll, so browse through those to get more tips on it. good luck with it. Very Happy

DaBigKahuna · Criminal Joined: 20 May 2003 Posts: 60 City: Honolulu

I'm in the same boat. I got the basic skills, can go big on my W2W jumps, have landed big HS BS Blind 180s, all 180s pretty consistant, but DAMN IF I CAN'T GET OVER MY MENTAL BLOCK ON INVERTS!

This SUCKS! I don't have this problem with MotoX, Kiteboarding, Surfing, and other sports. But wakeboarding...DAMN!

Rocket · Outlaw Joined: 11 Jun 2004 Posts: 127

QNev, no dis-respect intended and if dropping the rope worked for you then I'm impressed.

k9fxr, DaBigKahuna, I would NEVER let go of the rope when learning backrolls. It is nothing to do with bad habits, it is simply that you will never get all the way round without the handle in your hand. The only thing that keeps your rotation going is the pull from the line. If you let go of the handle I guarantee you will only get half way round and you will land on your head and it is a lot more likely to hurt!!!
The handle is your throttle, if you hold it in tight you will spin quickly and if you let it out a bit it will slow your rotation, if you let go of it all together your rotation will stall!

There is not much advice to give on your mental block, you just need to suck it up and give it a go.

The only other tips I would give are that you don't need to cut all that far out, maybe 10-15 feet. (This may help the fear as you then won't be hitting the wake with so much speed). Make sure you have a very effective progressive cut and what ever you do MAKE SURE YOU HOLD YOUR EDGE through the top of the wake, this will give you the height you are going to need to get all the way round. At the top of the wake, as ohio_wake_2008, said, don't force the jump just straighten your legs as with a normal big wake jump and look up over your leading shoulder and this will initiate the rotation and HOLD THE HANDLE IN TIGHT!!

If you hold the handle in and edge well you will definately get 80% round. When you are getting that far round and you have not got all that much lateral speed a fall will not hurt.

Good luck and let us know how it goes.

Catch This Wake · Addict Joined: 03 Feb 2005 Posts: 590 City: Miami

Like Rocket, said the one thing to do is pretty much ride balls to the wall man. If you ride scared I guaratee you that wakeboarding won't be as fun.

I've have also been recently working on that trick too, actually. The way i got through it was just trying it. The first few attempts I don't even think they should be called attempts, because I probably rotated like 35% and yes it hurt. But just keep trying in and eventually you'll get to like 60% then 85% rotation, and finally you'll stick.

If there is anything that can motivate you to get over the mental block, the rush and the feeling one gets after accomplishing something after he has failed at it time and time again, is worth those hard spills you take.

P.S. Not holding the handle from my experience is a bad idea. EverythingRocket, said is true about the handle. That is what keeps you moving. Having the handle close to your hips make the rotation faster.

My two cents.

k9fxr · Outlaw Joined: 07 Mar 2003 Posts: 199 City: MI

It's gonna be another week till I get out again, I am starting to get psyched about trying it, I appreciate the ideas.
Another question, I've heard people say to pop first then look up or lean back, but the videos make it look like you roll right over from the wake,
does it feel like a pop, then invert?

Thanks

SuperEt112345 · Newbie Joined: 20 Jun 2005 Posts: 26 City: LaCrosse

Mental blocks are tough to get over. It took me forever to finally try inverts. You just have to commit about it. Like the others just forget about everything else. Once you try it youll be hooked. Youll realize the falls arent that bad, especially if you make it around. I would rather fall on an invert than on a spin. Just go out and try it. I guarantee you wont regret it.

Epic · Addict Joined: 21 Aug 2005 Posts: 765

Just started trying a backroll myself and I agree that letting go of the handle is a baaaad idea. My first 3 attempts I kept letting go with 1 hand for some reason and it just layed me out flat and knocked the wind out of me all 3 times. The guys in the boat said everything looked good, had the height, good rotation, then one hand came off the handle and they said I basically stopped and faceplant.
As far as the mental block goes. Get some hotties to ride with you. If you pull it off or get close they'll love it. If you hurt yourself, they might give you a massage.

Rocket · Outlaw Joined: 11 Jun 2004 Posts: 127

k9fxr, the reason people say pop then start the rotation is that nearly everyone when they start backrolls starts the rotation too early i.e. at the bottom of the wake. This will result in you not getting the height required to get round.

The pop is slightly different to the w2w pop as you do start leaning as you are popping off the wake. As you hit the top of the wake straighten your legs as if you are taking a big wake jump and as your legs straighten out start looking over your shoulder so that it is kind of one motion.

The roll is like a contiunuation of the wake like a loop the loop!

Does this make sense? It is still early here in the UK and I'm knackered!!! Embarassed

jpminter · Posted: May 30, 2006 9:33 am Post subject:

Yeah, never let go of the rope. It won't help you learn it any better and you could get hurt more easily. Backroll falls really are not that bad compared to other tricks (IE, raleys especially). After the first or second attempts you will probably start getting enough rotation so that you do not land on your head. If you're still a little scared, try wearing a helmet.

J_DOGG · Posted: May 30, 2006 11:52 am Post subject:

DaBigKahuna, You do backflips on the moto????

No hope with out da rope!
Can't do a ting with out da string!

Maybe you are not ready for the trick????

Their are two kinds on backrolls.
Mexi and Traditional..

Most people learn the traditional method first as it is based almost 100% on a very progressive edge and a tight handle.
This is the look up and away method over the lead shoulder. These are the ones you will need to do for the HS Roll to Revert progression.

The next is Mexi and people like me do the mexi cuz we have the traditional backroll down and know we can spot the landing supper early and like to cheat off the wake. We just drop or head forward (down) keep the handle at the hip and let the wake roll us with out much pushing up and away. These are the ones you will need to take it to blind.

Huck and luck is for the young guys, make sure you are ready for the trick and you will land it 5th try like I did many years ago.

J_DOGG · Posted: May 30, 2006 11:56 am Post subject:

Sorry I got the invert mental block post messed up with the HS backroll post....

Spend some time on a tramp to get air-awareness..... other than that make sure you go into the trick with confidence.

DaBigKahuna · Criminal Joined: 20 May 2003 Posts: 60 City: Honolulu

Yea, I wish I could backflip da' KTM, I would be the MAN in Hawaii!

Anyways, I'm gonna get past this damn mental block sooner or later.

Rode yesterday and almost had a really big HS BS Indy Grab Blind 180. My friends are telling me that the heel digger neck-snappers I am taking on this trick are way worse than backroll or tantrum falls, but I guess I don't believe them.

J_DOGG · Posted: May 31, 2006 3:54 am Post subject:

DaBigKahuna, they are right!!!

I beat the crap out of myself learning the 360 many years ago and landed the HS backroll after only 5 tries. I tell people all the time, the mechanics of a HS backroll are way easier than the 360.

People just insist on learning the 3 first cuz they are afraid of going upside down.
Do what you are ready for but if you have a good HS progressive edge you should be OK working on the HS backroll.

Yup you would be da man if you were busting backflips on the moto.
I ride a street legal WR450, it's mad fun.

k9fxr · Outlaw Joined: 07 Mar 2003 Posts: 199 City: MI

OK, you guys are really psyching me
I do use a helmet, cuz when I was learning 3's I got whip lashed a number of times,
are most people looking back to the left over their shoulder, or straight up from their shoulder?
Rocket you explained it well, it does look like a loop d loop.

Thanks guys, I feel like I will need to pass out cigars after this

J_DOGG · Posted: Jun 01, 2006 3:49 am Post subject:

TP83 · Addict Joined: 31 May 2006 Posts: 739 City: Woodside

just jump and lan back, that got me past my mental block. eventhough you wont get close your still need to get the feel for putting your head back just try it now or never.

Wakemaster_17 · Outlaw Joined: 25 Dec 2005 Posts: 123 City: Vicksburg

i got my girlfriend in the boat with me and i stated to try and show off

hyyperlitesonofabitch · Outlaw Joined: 31 May 2006 Posts: 132 City: Seneca

WAKENERD · Criminal Joined: 17 Jan 2006 Posts: 54 City: HONG KONG

Prepare yourself well before going into the water- fully understand the trick, knowing exactly what you need to do and try to imagine yourself doing it in your head over and over again so when you are in water you don't even have to think about what you need to do coz you already knew it and you won't be afraid if you don't think of it too much.

After your first attempt and you realized how little it hurts (trust me it doesn't really hurt) then you are not afriad of it anymore. Do it 4 or 5 times in a row if you can't land it that fine, but be sure to have them recorded on tape so you can watch what you did wrong and correct it before next time going into the water. Try 4 to 5 times if you still can't land it do it all over again next time until you stick it.

You'll be amazed how much watching your own video can help. You don't realize what you did wrong until you see it for yourself. One last thing...handle is your friend, never ever go of it!

I hope you'll get over your mental block. Keep us posted on how you do!

Relentless_Goon · Criminal Joined: 21 Sep 2004 Posts: 88 City: Panama City

"No Mind", train your mind to get over the voice that says "you can't do it" and you'll be alright Cool

DaBigKahuna · Criminal Joined: 20 May 2003 Posts: 60 City: Honolulu

Well...between yesterday and today I hucked at least 12 toeside backrolls! I finally got past this damn mental block! My first attempt was totally sick, I got like 8 feet of air and did 1 1/2 rotations! And, like you all said, the falls were totally minor! I have taken way worse falls doing stupid things and, of course, my dreaded W2W blind 180!

Thanks to everybody who encouraged me to advance and go for it. I AM STOKED! Very Happy

I am making the rotations but I keep coming up short on the second wake so I get crushed and I bail the handle. But still, totally minor and totally FUN! YeeeeDogggy!

Rocket · Outlaw Joined: 11 Jun 2004 Posts: 127

DaBigKahuna, TOESIDE backrolls as your first invert?? That's cool.

sandman · Newbie Joined: 23 Feb 2006 Posts: 9 City: Omaha

I've been reading these various posts on the hs backrole, I cant wait to get out and try it myself. I think reading over and over how to do it on here from different people can help get you over any mental block you may have. Cool

WAKENERD · Criminal Joined: 17 Jan 2006 Posts: 54 City: HONG KONG

ripava82 · Newbie Joined: 08 Jun 2006 Posts: 37 City: Grass Valley

this guy Rocket, really knows what he's talkin about, its like hes a super sweet wakeboarding instructor, i have learned so much from his posts Very Happy

anyone agree?

Thanks rocket

Rocket · Outlaw Joined: 11 Jun 2004 Posts: 127

ripava82, I agree!!!! Laughing

Thanks man, it's good to know that posting helps. If you ever have any specific queries that you want a direct response on feel free to PM me.

jpminter · Posted: Jun 16, 2006 3:55 am Post subject:

I agree, his posts rock!

wake_carver · Outlaw Joined: 04 Nov 2005 Posts: 157 City: sydney

i say invite some friends and drinks and laugh all the way, have fun and just
try it with good, fun vibes.

crazywake · Newbie Joined: 23 Jun 2006 Posts: 1

some important hints...

1. body - legs position 90° on aproch to the wake. make sure your chest does not lean forward

2. weight on board evenly distributed with 50% on both legs (very important- check BEFORE you cut in for the jump. look down to the board and see if it really is the case)

3. handle has to be near hip when starting to edge in and also a 90° arm-bend throughout the whole trick

4. board nearly flat through the wake. not much of an edge

5. hold handle slightly forward towards the wake when cutting in. near front hip or even a little further towards the wake.

6. cut as you would for a normal wake-jump or just a tine little bit more.

now this should help.

k9fxr · Outlaw Joined: 07 Mar 2003 Posts: 199 City: MI

Crazywake, What does point 5 do??
And I am assuming you mean to the left hip on a regular healside approach.

Rocket · Outlaw Joined: 11 Jun 2004 Posts: 127

crazywake, are these tips for doing a Backroll?

I would disagree with point 4. You should edge all the way through the wake. You will need a good pop to give yourself more time in the air to complete the rotation. The good pop will come from a good progressive edge, loading the line and holding the edge through the wake. You do not need to start too far out of the wake as you do not need loads of speed but you do need the pop.

Robert Harp · Guest

crazywake, have u even ever done a wake jump???? I disagree with just about everything you said and I can't even DO a backroll. dear god. I know HOW, but I have no balls. my ex GF sucked them out. j/p.