Can a boardshop be profitable without catering to wallies?

[Bowen]

So, one of the things I want to do in life is start a boardshop. For my senior thesis, as of right now, I am going to do a business plan for a boardshop, and one day I hope to act on it. I know that to be most profitable I would have to cater to the wallies w/ ski's tubes, stretch ropes, and a ton of hyperlite stuff. But last night I started thinking...What if I did a shop that only sold rider owned companies? That would leave me with a ton of wakeskates and gator boards (I'm not sure if joyride is rider owned or not). I would have to carry skateboards too, and snow (but the market in dallas...as you could guess, isn't that great for snow...especially for smaller companies).

If someone came in looking for hyperlite or whatever, I would talk with them, try and enlighten them, and tell them that if the name was that important to them to go somewhere else and buy a hyperlite.

Do you think it could work? And are there any other rider owned wakeboard companies besides gator?

Edit* I would also carry a good ammount of rider owned clothing, like Cire, 1080...

[410fortune]

any shop that turns away any potential customers will most likely fail.

You cant be picky about whos $$$$ you take.

Look at the off road industry. You think you could stay afloat if you only did custom long travel rock buggies and turned away all the full size Chavy and ford IFS suspension kits, gay vinyl graphics, flashy big diesel exhaust kits, pushbars, and red shock boots? NO way jose.

You wont last long.

[410fortune]

Also in this day and age the shops are getting owned by the order online all we need is a website, warehouse and shipping places.

Now I am not saying you cannot do it, location is everything when you own any sort of shop, and I dont like the way things are these days either, but its reality in American business.

I support the small shops as much as I can, I willpay a little more to get my parts from a local 4x4 shop I like instead of ordering for less from 4wheelparts.com

But then sometimes when I am looking at spending $3K for a suspension kit, and 4wheelparts saves me $500, guess who gets my order.

[Luca]

Sorry man, I own a hyperlite and have 2 kids under 7 who like tubing. Thanks for shutting me out of your shop-Wally

[97Response]

Bowen - very good idea, but I think you're attempting to attract a market that is just too small. Making this an online boardshop and marketing it as such may work better, but I still don't think its a great idea. If you're just a B&M store, I wouldn't think you'd attract the business you need.

Secondly, the wakeboarding market is small enough as it is, personally, I wouldn't want to make an investment based solely on your "beliefs" of rider owned boards. You're going to need a name brand (HL, LF, CWB) to stand out, even to those who aren't wally's. As much as you may think the HL is marketing to solely wally's, their not. As much as you/others may hate having HL/HO marketing to the masses, this in reality is brilliant business. (They do have a good product for all levels of wakeboard/ski equipment). I'm assuming you are a business major, and you should know one strategic marketing strategy is obtaining market share. HL does this and does it well.

I think if you were to asked everyday Joe Schmo Wally whats the most well known comapny in the watersports industry, my guess is that O'brien will be their first response. (HO/HL will likely be second, maybe Connelly). Knowing this, when someone goes online to look up a store to buy from, they are going to use a search engine to find what they are looking for. You want your store to be the one found.

Again, you'd like carry only rider own products, more power to you, but your business won't be around long. Thats the reality of business. As much as you'd like to educate people into believing buying rider own boards "enlightens" them, all your doing is passing your beliefs along to a customer.

I think the best example of a store you're looking at doing is Performance Ski (www.perfski.com). They're located out of Orlando, FL, yet sell snowboard equipment. If you notice, they carry as many brands as they possibly can, and have become very respected in their associated industries.

Of course, this is just my opinion, and while I admire your vision of creating a store based on your beliefs, I just don't think this strategy would work well. Joe Schmo Wally is what keeps stores in business. The wakeboard market is just too small. Best of luck with the business plan and hopefully some of this helped.

-Please do not take this response as me bashing any of your wakeboarding "beliefs" (I.E. HL is the devil).

[410fortune]

What in the hell is wrong with Hyperlite boards anyways? I mean I know all about what a poseur is, I grew up int he 80's, my generation invented skateboarding, punk music, etc...

My first board was a Hyperlite and it rides just fine Just because LF is the best right now doesnt mean anyone who rides something else is a Poseur, unless of course you are 15 years old and still think that way hahaha

HL, LF, Obrien, hell they all make good boards and bindings if you ask me.

[nuckledragger]

In my experience, you have to carry the major brands also. For instance....there is a surf shop out here in HB. The owner hates dealing with the big companies and would rather carry all small brands. He wants to see the little guys succeed and loves the entreprenuerial (sp?) spirit, but he knows that without the Quik, Billa, Volcom, etc. he cannot survive. He also runs the busiest surf shop in the South Bay and is very successful. He brings in a lot of the little guys but the bring brands are his anchor and major money makers.

Just remember that the majority of the people on this board, including you and me, are pretty deeply immersed in the industry. We know and hear a lot of what goes on behind the scene and want to support the rider-owned, but we only represent about 1% of the consumers who purchase these products. The other 99% will gravitate toward what they see in a mag and what the "masses" are using or wearing. You can still support rider owned and help them grow and compete but you will need a few big brands to keep you a float.

As far as the online vs. local shop agruement, a majority of brands will not sell to internet only companies. The majority of the online stores are owned and operated by the brick and mortar shops, sometimes under another name.

[Ian_82]

[Bowen]

Listen first off, I am not saying that any of those companies make bad products, all make an amazing product. I don't even own a gator board, I own LF, CWB, and Hype...seriously, they all make great products. I'm looking at the principles. I was just testing the market here to see what people think.

I am aware that it would be much better for it to be strictly an online shop, b/c then the 'core' market is 'core' riders in the US. I was just curious to see what people would say. And as much as I like the idea of it, I am aware that I most likely wouldn't be around long...and I would never open anything without doing TONS of research first.

I just thought that the idea sounded good.

410fortune, I completely understand about the offroad market, I used to be in it myself, and I typically stuck with the smaller companies (RE, Rusty's offroad, JKS, Tomken...).

[Bowen]

[lcap]

Not no, but hell no!

Wakeboarding is becoming a sport for a bunch of lame ass punks who's main concern is pimping the coolest looking board.

You clowns with your superiority complex is also entertaining. Of course since this is an internet forum you can pretend to greatest on the planet. When in reality 90% can't do a simple w2w on any board, CWB included. Or behind any boat, including the grand daddy baddass picklefork beer boat.

But damn they'll look "cool" cause they always have the latest and greatest gear all made by the "non wally" manufacturers!

So who is a "real" "wally?" The one's that can rip on a Hyperlite or the guy that looks pretty in the boat with his CWB up in the rack?

[410fortune]

Bubb Rubbing funny thing is I cant stand the cheapo mac and cheese, its Velveeta shells and cheese for me or nothing. this is one area that I am picky, but yeah I wont yell at you if you eat that other watered down stuff hahaha

[ProPayne]

if the little guys suceeded, wouldnt it eventually become a corporation. i bet 15 years ago hyperlite was kind of what gator boards is today.(just an assumption, not trying to get flamed)

but if you are saying that corporations arent good companies an that people who buy their stuff are wallies, then Parks Bonifay, Shaun Murray, Darin Shapiro, etc, are all wallies because they ride hyperlite and other big companies.

i think R.O.C.s are great and have a good idea, but to make a shop with just ROCs youd have to sell everything from Wakeboards to Rollerskates to make good profit.

just my .02. good luck with your plans and thesis

[Bowen]

OK, once again, I am not saying that Hyperlite is only for wallies. I know alot of people who ride hyperlite and they rip. I was stereotyping in my initial post to get the point across for what I was talking about.

[lcap]

The real wallies are the assholes you call "core" borders who come into your shop, pick your brain, demo your products and then shop on-line for the cheapest price.

[Kewlboarder27r]

if you started a boat dealership the board shop would work out better justt a little off topic though

[J-Ro]

Bowen, I ran an upstart shop about 5 years ago. We started in '96 when the Baff and the '69 were brand spanking new and it was cool to drill the tip of your directional board and put a tiny fin up there. I have seen a lot of stuff during that time. We basically had to educate everybody that walked through the dorr on what a wakeboard was, how to get up, etc. I even went out with a lot of new customers to show them on their boats.

The majority of your profit will be form (dear God) tubes. Yep, for each season I was there, I bought and sold more profit $$'s in tubes than any other one line. Skis, boards, etc. The next highest profit $$;s came from softgoods (vests, clothes, etc). It's a little different now but you have to make money to stay in business. Someone said there is't a big enough market for a core store. Thats sort of true. You may be able to make it with a winter line (snowboards) and a year round line (Skateboards, clothes). I didn't have LF when they were brand new and when the Squirt came out, I turned a lot of people away because I didn't carry it (Couldn't get the line due to territory issues). That's lost business!

Another thing is those "Core" companies can't give you the pricing you need to stay in business. The "poser" brands can. Oh and it really depends on your rep too. You need to find an untapped market too. Either a new company or a new product (Freebords comes to mind). You also need a location that gets the weekend "Heading to the lake" traffic, or next to the beach or skatepark.

I have seen a ton of "Core" shops go under and the main reason is a lack of income due to a product selection that is too narrow.

I think the next cool thing would be a "Google" portal for alternative sports. Both for info and for the cheapest prices. Get ad money and maybe sell something too.

Good Luck, I always wanted to get back in the biz but once Gore invented the internet, it started killing the brick and mortar shops.

[Bowen]

J-Ro, thank you, that provided the best info so far for me. I really appreciate it. And yes, Gore's internet is killing alot of brick and mortar shops.

[scott a]

alright...here's my take.

i work in a board shop in san jose. we sell hyperlite, liquid force and gator (rip double up). during the days that i work at the shop ive sold 10 packaged beginner/intermediate setups for every one high end board. ive seriously had a hard time keeping the omega and state packages in stock because that seems to be all that people buy. when someone comes in for bindings they will buy the alphas because they are inexpensive and really comfy (well now the team ltd and transit ltd are also selling very well since we're selling them for $199), but for the most part we have been dealing with people who wanna buy a beginner setup and a tube or two to use on the new malibu they are taking delivery on.

tubes are a popular item, and without them you wont stay in business long. same goes with hyperlite and cwb and LF. you NEED to carry them because that is what will get people in the doors, and hopefully keep them coming back. if you stock a big name board company then you might be able to afford gator or another small board company to support ROC if you so choose.

one way to look at it is that if you talk to a first time buyer and spend some time with them and talk to them about the ins and outs of each particular shape they will be more likely to come back and buy another board. this time around you might be able to walk over to your ROC stuff and talk to them about that.

that being said i work for a pretty decent sized shops, and there are two other smaller shops within a few miles. these guys are pretty much EXACTLY what you are thinking about doing bowen. one of them carries Funded Tech boards, cwb and a handfull of HL and jet pilot vests plus some skate stuff in the summer, and snow stuff in the winter. if you wanna do a ROC style shop youre gonna need to build a solid group of regular visiters because you might not get as much drop in business as a shop w/ hyperlite and LF logos in the windows.

anyways that was completely unorganized and a great big mess of gobbly-goop. sorry for the ramblings but yeah. if anyone has made it this far in the post im sure you can pull a point or two out of this...

and about the whole core/ROC/wally thing- live and let live. if some people wanna funnel their money into __________ company who are you to give a sht?

[jumalian]

selling only products from rider-owned companies? i see you're about to fail business.

[chavez]

While those answers are much more detailed than mine, they are not neccesarily better.

Q:

[ontrider]

The wally's buy the most expensive stuff too.

[Kento911]

jumalian, I think at this point its obvious Bowen is conducting a survey (meaning he wants our answers more then he really needs our help to "save" him from a mistake) dont attack him man thats just shitty

Bowen, having managed a Core skateboard shop and done alot of helping at my friends wakeboard/moto shop I can honestly say if your a buisness man (I.E. your more worried about feeding you family than the "message " your sending) you WANT wallies in your shop. . they are rich , dumb, and easily influenced because they have a complete lack of information on what they want to buy. They are graphic/visual shoppers if it looks cool they want it, and you also want "Wally" brands why? Because they sell assloads of gear every season and they make your bottom line for a board lower than an ROC can afford to almost indeffinately. . . . .

If you really want to support ROCS I feel like scott a, is really on the right track. . .get yourself a big brand maybe 2 like for example Hype and CWB those guys will also sell you tubes vest and other soft goods not to mention you now have some acess to wakeskates for cheap too. . and if your rep is worth his salt youll have demo boards at your disposal. . . . . now that your feeling like an evil corpo whore pick up the phone call up some small companies and put some product on your shelves from Omen, Integrity, Funded Tech, Nice, Krown, Gator, Cassette, Kampus, Concrete, whomever doesnt matter pick your cause and then notice how the Wallies who never buy the core stuff are supporting your shop (and the core stuff by monetary osmosis) by buying Byerly board/boots, carbon handle, A-line, Grubb vest,and some cool tees and die cuts. . . . .$$cha-ching$$ Wally just bought 1300 or so dollars in gear off you. . . . . . youll have 6-10 wallies dependng on your area to every one core rider. . . . . .so if you want to support ROCs once again referring back to scott a, here you let them have the "wally gear" treat them good make them YOUR customers then when they say "hey Bowen, I sorta like how this Byerly rides but its kinda slow and I want something with a little smoother pop" you can say. . . . . ."well buddy we have the GB Gonzales its a subtle 3 stage faster and a little less poppy. . . . or even faster is this funded tech board but it still has very good pop. . now they arent as big as Hype or CWB but I dont carry something I dont belive in so give that a thought, besides you dont want the same setup everyone else is riding, plus its a rider owned company" and wally says "rider owned company? what so big about that???". . . . . . . . . BAM now youve just brought a core rider in to the fold and Hype paid you to do it see what I mean? corpos are nessicary to float the little guys and shops and brands a like thats my coppers on that one

[jumalian]

Kento911, i was half-serious and half-kidding. btw, Bowen and i are often in the same boat.

[Kento911]

jumalian, ahhhhh ok my bad

[Bowen]

Kento911, yeah thats what I figured I would end up doing, I was just wondering if it would be possible to go only ROC. Thanks bro, hit me up when the winch is done. And don't listen to jumalian, he's a jackass and I hate him, so much in fact that he isn't invited to my birthday party that we already had when we went on our first delta trip this summer

[jumalian]

Bowen, is your rider-owned-core-shop gonna carry MOOSE RIP STICKS and BUTTER WRAPS????

[Kento911]

Bowen, ouch that burns I hope Im not on your bad side sheesh. . btw the winch motor is goign to a shop b/c I dont have time with school the down side is it will cost me monwy the up side is they are professionals and they will have it runnig sooner than I woul dhopefully. . in all honesty buying a used motor for my proto was the worst mistake I ever made

[Bowen]

jumalian, oh yeah...we'll be hookin' people up w/ the bro price...

Kento911, well hurry and get it working!!!!!!!!!! do it...DOOOO IIIIITTTTTT.

[DavidHoff]

Bowen, I don't have any advice, but good luck and I'll be workin' for ya If you get it going.

[Bruky]

[Blake]

Hmm... Your shop has to atleast have an account with these companies. And yes, they are going to make you hold down atleast a minimum order too. Having an account with certains companies will also allow you to "order" products. I dont like to buy online either, but the no tax, and what not is pretty nice. If you keep your over head low, your buisness could work. Just depends on the deman naturally. A board shop that demos would be nice too. Possibly, even one day, you could carry a few boats to sell too. My cousin owns a golf store, and I have learned a ton about buisness here of late. People still want to support the little guys to get their things now, but will not hesitate to beat you down on a price. You have to stay competative with prices. You could possibly even take boards in on trade too. That would be a neat new idea. Trade out your old junk for some new in store credit!

As for 4wheelparts.com, you area tool. I wouldnt order crap from them, nor would I let them touch my vehicle. Their is plenty of truck message board forums, that have vendors. 4wheelparts.com is an evil empire and deserves to go under.

[Ian_82]

[Bowen]

[lcap]

I have what used to be a "core" shop within 4 miles of my house. In business 7 years. They struggled then they made the switch to Hyperlite and grew very quickly and had to move to a bigger location. This is there internet welcome: