Wake Size

r76l · Posted: Aug 12, 2004 1:51 pm Post subject: Wake Size

I have a 2003 185 Bayliner, with a tower. I was wondering how if a few things would help the wake size.

I've tried getting more people, filling up ballasts, and I'm still not really satisfied. I've played with the trim too. I know I'm never gonna have anything like my friend's Supra SSV Launch Gravity Games edition, but I'm thinking I got spoiled after riding behind that a few too many times, and now he's off to college. But anything will help.

Do you think that a 4 or 5 blade stainless steel prop will help (currently have a 3 blade alumminum)?

Or maybe a Hydrofoil Stabilizing plate (Don't have one at all)?

benji · Posted: Aug 12, 2004 2:06 pm Post subject:

hey...
i've got a four winns 180 horizon which is quite similar to you boat and the thing that i found the best is using a 15 degree pitch prop or a seventeen degree prop. you will probably find that you are using a 19 degree prop.

It changed the complete shape of my wake and put an awesome lip on it so it now sends us into orbit!!!!

Try that

benny

r76l · Posted: Aug 12, 2004 4:41 pm Post subject: wake size

alright I'll look into that

UNCWakeboarder · Criminal Joined: 20 Jun 2004 Posts: 57 City: Wilmington

How does the prop help the wake?

BoardOrSink · Newbie Joined: 12 Aug 2004 Posts: 4

yes... do tell

wakeboardpro10 · Outlaw Joined: 05 Feb 2004 Posts: 218 City: OC

it just does

wakeboardcamp · Soul Rider Joined: 05 Nov 2003 Posts: 496 City: Halifax

I really don't see how a prop is going to help the size and shape of a wake, all a prop does is either give you more tork with less top end speed or gives you less tork with higher top end speed...

if someone knows otherwise then i'd be interested in hearing

wake2wake · Soul Rider Joined: 13 Jan 2003 Posts: 311 City: Lexington

I'll tell you how!!!!!!!! Twisted Evil

If you got a 19 pitch 3 blade Aluminum, you won't be able to put as much weight in the boat!!!!! Rolling Eyes

and with a 17 pitch 4 or 5 blade SS prop you can put three times as much weight in the boat depending on the horse power of you motor!!

but a three blade prop with produce more white water (air) in your wake then say a 4 or 5 blade prop, less air in the water the firmer the wake!!

so the right prop can help!!!! Laughing

but weight is about the only thing that will increase the size of your wake!! Very Happy

just a tip, If the nose of your boat does not dip water or come close to it when you let off the power all the way, You don't have enough weight in it especially on an I/O!!

I have an I/O with a 240hp, 17p 4 blade stainless steel prop, and about 1200 in water and 3-400 in lead plates.(all the water is from the drivers seat forward) add about 6 people and it puts out a nice wake and burns a lot of gas!!!

But i will say my friends x-2's wake is better! not so much size but the shape of the wake!!

peace

wakeboardcamp · Soul Rider Joined: 05 Nov 2003 Posts: 496 City: Halifax

exactly! therefor the prop does not give you the better wake, but it does help you make a bigger and better wake... Wink

wake2wake · Soul Rider Joined: 13 Jan 2003 Posts: 311 City: Lexington

benji · Posted: Aug 16, 2004 1:15 am Post subject:

yeah soory about the confusion. I had a lot of trouble with a 19 degree prop and weight in the boat. the 17 is alot tourqier and changes the shape of the wake.

With no weight in the boat and changing between the two props the 17 gave alot steeper wake than the 19 prop. i guess that it is pusing more water in a shorter space or something like that... the phisics doesn't really intrest me but the difference in the wake is noteable....

anyone coming to australia soon?

benny

wake2wake · Soul Rider Joined: 13 Jan 2003 Posts: 311 City: Lexington

ya, phisics suck!!!

I spent alot of time to get my I/O to put out a good wake!! The biggest factors are horse power and adding the weight. lots of it! Twisted Evil

peace

beryessaboardrider · Criminal Joined: 19 Jul 2004 Posts: 73 City: Sacramento

I have a 98 Sea Ray 180 and I changed from the stock 21p 3 blade to a 18p 4 blade both aluminum and added the hydrofoil fin. It only lost about 2-3 mph and the hole shot is 10 times better. When there is 7 people in the boat and some ice chests the wake is nice. I think the fin allows you to put more weight in the back since it helps the boat get out of the water and get on plane faster. Like wake2wake, the 4 blade made the wake cleaner it doesn't roll over with the white bubbles any more. I'll take a pic of the wake this weekend and post it.

KristianB · Posted: Aug 18, 2004 3:14 am Post subject:

There always seem to be people who claim that a fin is great for the wake. I havn't tried, but isn't a fin just the opposite of a wedge? The fin raises the stern out of the water which causes the boat to plane faster and lessens the wet surface allowing for less drag and a higher top speed. But that should make for a smaller wake or am I missing something? (And then shouldn't someone tell Malibu they got it up-side-down??? Confused

)

Physics is fun!

/K

vision135 · Posted: Aug 18, 2004 4:25 am Post subject:

have tried phat sacs they help alot

wake2wake · Soul Rider Joined: 13 Jan 2003 Posts: 311 City: Lexington

beryessaboardrider,

Ya I bet that 18 made all the difference I can't believe your boat had a 21p on it (bet your hole shot sucked). The only thing about dropping prop size is you need to be careful not to over rap (RPM) the motor. Mercriuser recommends no higher rpm then 4500-4800 rpm. But as long as watch you tach you could put what ever you like on it. Twisted Evil

I really like the fact that my 17 4blade ss prop makes the boat hold speed better too!!

peace

boardumb · Newbie Joined: 18 Aug 2004 Posts: 6 City: Peterborough

boardumb · Newbie Joined: 18 Aug 2004 Posts: 6 City: Peterborough

Oh but to answer the question about how a prop affects wake size, the other lad hit it right on the head.

The lower pitch prop you have with more blades will move more weight. Weight being the key to wake, the prop has a direct effect.

I used to be somewhat of a prop head for boat racing and have volumes of literature on the subject. If anyone needs an opinion, don't hesitate to ask!

Evan.

wakejunkie137 · Soul Rider Joined: 12 Jan 2003 Posts: 377

i have an 03 Centurion Avalanche with the center ballast (250lb) and we put a 600lb sac in the middle in front of the back seat, two 350lb sacs in the back compartments, and a 350 in the front, and if its just me and my friend we fill a 350 3/4 of the way on the opposite side of the driver. this makes a massive perfect wake for us. its about 2 1/2 - 3 ft and very wide and not to rampy (which its very rampy w/o much weight) but not to steep, enought of each to get you across and up there quite a ways. and what i really like is the its not a hard wake, its kinda soft. like its not a brick wall when you hit it, its more smooth.

my friend has an 01 Tige' 20i and we put a 600lb in the back, two 350lbs on either side of the engine box and a 350lb about half way in the front. that wake is HUGE, STEEP, and HARD. very fun when u really wanna kick ass and GET UP THERE!

dunno if this will help any. u just gotta get some sacs or something and evenly weight the boat. just play around w/ it a little. you wont get it right the first time. it took us a month or two to find the PERFECT set up for our boats. takes time dude. good luck and good times

hishy · Criminal Joined: 12 Feb 2003 Posts: 83 City: Bahrain

i got an outboard engine, would a 4blade prop help?
my boat is locallly made, wont find the same in the US or AUS, i use 600lbs at the back and another 600lbs in front.
and advice would help

hishy · Criminal Joined: 12 Feb 2003 Posts: 83 City: Bahrain

and here's the wake it gives with that ballast

LFADAM · Posted: Aug 20, 2004 2:51 am Post subject:

hishy, trim it more and it should be pretty good.

I have an 88 Four Winns 200 Horizon. no Tower Crying or Very sad

and no ballast Crying or Very sad

but we get up to 10 people in it and even empty if you trim it just over half, the inside of the wake is REALLY rough but who cares because the wake gets so nice you have no problem goin wake 2 wake. Get a nice shape a little narrower and really firm. If you got an I/O try it but just to letcha know, dont trim until on a plane, VERY HARD to get a rider outta the water with it trimmed that much so get them up then trim it up. Twisted Evil

boardumb · Newbie Joined: 18 Aug 2004 Posts: 6 City: Peterborough

Lyle · Posted: Aug 20, 2004 7:53 am Post subject:

boardumb,
You say you have done some work with props before in the past. How much do you know. I changed the out drive on my boat lowering the gear ratio. Now it is more difficult to keep the speed constant at wakeboarding speed and the top speed dropped from 50 mph to 45 mph. I have tried several props to correct for the 7% change in gear ratio but to no avail. Any ideas?

Prop and wakes: I have tried many different props on our 22 ft I/O (3-5 blades, aluminum, stainless, and plastic, several different pitches) I haven't noticed any change in the wake, the only thing it does is makes it easier or harder to keep the speed constant.

hishy · Criminal Joined: 12 Feb 2003 Posts: 83 City: Bahrain

Lyle,
i got the same problem, mostly i have noticed that when its rought riding conditions its hard to keep constant speed, but it gets much easier with calm water. i ride in salt water maybe that has something to do with it!

Lyle · Posted: Aug 20, 2004 12:12 pm Post subject:

hishy,
I hear you on the speed thing. A friend and I are actually working on coming up with our own Perfect Pass. We are going to do some testing over the next couple of days on the prototype.

hishy · Criminal Joined: 12 Feb 2003 Posts: 83 City: Bahrain

Lyle,
alright, fill me in on what you come up with.
thanx

Lyle · Posted: Aug 23, 2004 6:30 am Post subject:

hishy,
We tested it on Friday night and it actually worked really well. The problem was we think that since the boat we were testing it on was a jet boat, the jet was actually interefering with the speed sensor. Because if the rider was sitting in the middle or just on either side of the wake the boat was right on speed, but if he cut the left really hard the boat would speed up and if he cut the right the boat would slow down. We called it interactive wakeboarding.

salmon_tacos · Posted: Aug 23, 2004 6:52 am Post subject:

hishy,

How long have you been riding with that tower? The single cable off to the side would make me really nervous! I guess at least if it broke, the tower is far enough back that it probably wouldn't hit any passengers.

Anyway, I found that an 18-pitch aluminum 4-blade prop allowed me to hold speed much more easily than the 21-pitch aluminum 3-blade that came on my boat. This is just my experience so it may be different for you.

One thing that I would really recommend on any I/O or outboard would be some kind of stabilizer plate on the drive. The commercial ones are usually called hydrofoil stabilizers because they are foil-shaped and produce lift when trimmed in (down). I made my own plate out of 3/16" stainless steel plate because I wanted to eliminate lift as much as possible when trimmed out (up), so that it would produce somewhat of a wedge-like effect.

For one thing, any plate/wings/etc. on the drive will assist in acceleration to plane when the drive is trimmed in because it will help to push the stern out of the water. The other thing it will do is stabilize the pitch of the boat, helping to eliminate porpoising, and therefore helping to maintain speed.

hishy · Criminal Joined: 12 Feb 2003 Posts: 83 City: Bahrain

salmon_tacos, ive had the tower for 2years now. at first the cable was around the nose, but because of friction with the edge at the front of the boat, the cable was weakening and starting to break. cable to the side like that is actually pretty good. the cable is holding pretty good and no friction is apparent its seems pretty safe.
i have thought of the stabilizer on the drive, but i'm wondering if that would give you less wake!!! any ideas??
i got a new engine now as that pic is a little old. 3blade 17inch plate.

Lyle,,,, hows the wake now?

tnks guys

Lyle · Posted: Aug 23, 2004 9:28 am Post subject:

hishy,
The wake hasn't changed, I think once we get it dialed it will just be super conistent. I have thought about one of those stabalizers also, and thought it would decrease the wake size because it would give more lift, opposite of a wedge. As far as your cable I had the same issue then changed it to a 2" nylon strap and didn't have any issues.

salmon_tacos · Posted: Aug 23, 2004 9:49 am Post subject:

Any stabilizer will give you a smaller wake with the trim all the way down. In that position, it acts just like trim tabs, pushing the stern out of the water. A foil-shaped stabilizer will also decrease the wake a bit at neutral trim, i.e. where the prop axis is parallel to the water surface. When you trim up, however, the wake-decreasing effects will be reversed.

If you have the resources, I would recommend making your own plate. It will be cheaper and more effective for wakeboarding. Here's the one I made:

I'm thinking of taking a little bit off the center of the leading edge, giving it a bit of a swept-forward look, so that I can trim up a bit farther without ventilating the prop. As it is now, I guess too much trim up starts to block some water flow to the top of the prop, causing a decrease in power and some vibration. It requires a lot of trim up to do it, but I'd still like to explore the wake-enhancing effects of trimming farther up than I can now.

hishy · Criminal Joined: 12 Feb 2003 Posts: 83 City: Bahrain

thanks guys, will fit the stabilizer on the weekend and let you know how it goes!

tata