Frontroll: toothpick, Ben & others please comment...

Amy · Criminal Joined: 27 Apr 2004 Posts: 92 City: State College

I just read all of the threads on the "trying Scarecrow" topic...
Ok. I need some advice from you guys. I have the Front Roll. I wanted to learn this B4 the crow for the same reasons you all mentioned.
I've been trying crows and have been having the roughest time getting the board around 180 degrees. I've been practicing big FS TS 180's out into the flats and everything. I am having such a brain fuzz or something on this trick getting it around......please, any tips you guys have would be so appreciated, the crow looks like so much fun. Oh, I've been visualizing this trick too. Nothing seems to help.

colefooter · Posted: Aug 05, 2004 11:47 am Post subject:

What helped me was letting go with the hand that lets you go switch easier. Its probably a bad habit, but atleast it helps you get the extra 180.

If your goofy let go with right hand

other way for regular.
Let go with the hand about 3/4 through the rotation.

HatzicMotive140 · Soul Rider Joined: 18 Jul 2004 Posts: 261 City: abbotsford

yeh and what else i thought might help is if you pulled the handle to your left hip(for goofy) or right hip for regular.

Cap'nPimp · Outlaw Joined: 22 Jun 2003 Posts: 131 City: Fenton

as your popping off the wake, like you would for a frontroll, push your back shoulder slightly down and towards the boat and turn your head away like your doing a frontside 180. pushing your back shoulder and turning your head hard should get you around. if your still not getting the full 180, do the shoulder and head thing and let go with your front had halfway through the rotation. hope that helps

ps- think of it more as a scarecrow not as a frontroll.

boarder52002 · Soul Rider Joined: 27 Jul 2004 Posts: 454 City: Chicago

i think the thing that will help you the most is if you let got with your front hand about half way though the move. this will pull you right around to switch. try that that is the way i do it

toothpick · Posted: Aug 05, 2004 5:01 pm Post subject:

Amy, I'm honored you wanted to hear me blab. Laughing

I'm guessing you've read what I've said about it before, quick sum up: I landed about 10 front rolls, then practiced the big late ts 180s (nice work there), then actually landed my first scarecrow attempt.

I'd like to know what happens on your scarecrow attempts, that may help us figure this one out. But I'll give some advice that helped me:

When I learned them, I did everything exactly like a front roll; same cut, same pop, same flip, until I spotted the water (yeah, right before you hit). When I spotted the water, I did the 180, focusing on pulling the handle (with both hands) to my back hip. On the first few I landed pretty stiff because I wasn't used to landing a flip switch heelside, but after a few I got the timing down.

Some more things I'd like to know about what you are doing is how big your front roll is (wake to wake? a little past the wake?), do you feel the pop off of the wake in your hips or do you feel it more in your feet (which happens if your body is not standing tall above the wake on the take off)?

I'll pay attention to this thread and try to help more.

kuehn · Outlaw Joined: 21 Sep 2003 Posts: 186 City: London. UK

Just looking at the comments of spinning or pulling the 180 as you spot the water. found this a bit too late. the key i found was loading the back arm and concentrating on that load all the way into the wake, backing off a little or flattening off a little at the "spray line" try to imagine that with all the tension on the back arm it will initiate the 180 virtually on leaving the wake. It is like a spring that unwinds you. Your hips have to be UP.
stick your butt out and it will look so sloppy even if you land them
Also i found one other common problem teaching this trick was lifting the arms too high on take off. letting go a little early helps too.

hope this helps. maybe post a clip if you can

ben · Outlaw Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Posts: 168 City: Pasco

practice it on a tramp. on a tramp i throw a normal fronflip then when im upside down i just look down and spot the tramp. that should easily spin the 180 for you. where your head goes, your body will follow. that may sort of confusing....sorry

Amy · Criminal Joined: 27 Apr 2004 Posts: 92 City: State College

Thank you all for helping me with this one!!

Toothpick,
I really appreciate all of your help! I read a lot of threads with your comments and you have a great way of explaining things. Smile

OK. My F-rolls are usually a foot or so outside of the wake, occasionally I'll land them on the tranny, more times than not though they are outside of the wake.

I never knew about "feeling the pop" in your feet or hips, I'll pay more attention to that this weekend, I think I mostly feel it in my feet or my shins...

When I do my s-crow attempts, I do everything like a normal F-roll. and just like you said, try to pull that handle to my back hip. When I do this, I barely rotate at the end, (everyone from theboat says it's looks identical to my F-roll)... I land stiff-legged and almost feel as though my feet are going to go through the bindings...lhope that makes sense...It feels like my ankles are going to go to where my toes are supposed to be. I'm only rotating about 90 degrees if that. Yes and landing switch heelside seems to be a fuzz for me...my muscle memory wants to land reggie.... Crying or Very sad

Hope this helps and again I totally appreciate your help!!!!!!!!!!! Very Happy

toothpick · Posted: Aug 06, 2004 6:50 am Post subject:

Okay, that helps. Sounds like your front roll is right where mine was, which is good. The thing about feeling pop in your hips or feet is something I've noticed. If I do the move without backing off my edge and getting my hips up tall at the wake, I feel the pop in my feet and I get very little air, just whipping the board around. When I get myself to back off the edge, stand tall and wait at the wake, I feel the pop in my hips, which gives me way more pop and a nice smooth rotation.

So, it sounds like you are really close to getting the crow. Now that you know what the front roll feels like, I'd say to go ahead and start pulling on the rope a little earlier, since you know the timing of it. The thing kuehn said about not lifting your arms up is right, make sure you keep the handle down around your waist through the whole thing.

The reason I'm not suggesting to do the 180 right off of the wake is mostly for style. Cool

I think the real poppy front roll to 180 style crows look and feel so much better than the high speed ones where the board whips out behind you and slams down on the water.

I'm sure you'll get it next time out. It feels really weird at first, but you'll get the hang of it. Good luck!

Amy · Criminal Joined: 27 Apr 2004 Posts: 92 City: State College

Thanks Toothpick and Kuehn!

It helps so much to hear others' experiences and advice as well. I'm so pumped now to ride! I will post a clip wheather I land one or not....

Load the back arm
keep the hands into the hips
wait for the pop Wink

kuehn · Outlaw Joined: 21 Sep 2003 Posts: 186 City: London. UK

TOTHPICK, i know what you mean about the style but think a front roll and the a 180 complicates matters a little. The type of crow your talking about is usually for a rear hand release with a grab and a late revert on landing? if you do not have a big wake you can struggle with this as i guess you well know. most of the guys i have riden with prefer a more s bend type crow. only taking it up and over when grabbing, just the way preffered in the uk.

Amy it sounds like you maybe coming up short from lack of line tension possibly even speed. most of this is your release from the top of the wake. it can be a confidence thing too. many people i teach come in on a strong cut and good load on the line (back arm) but drop their hips at the top of the wake resulting in poor pop and poor rotation and you drop like an elephant. its not much fun going through your bindings. under rotation can result in uneccesary injury by "squaring up on the landing. my advice would be spin the 180 the same time not after.

Absolutely dont worry about landing switch! IT IS FAR EASIER TO LAND IN THE FLATS SWITCH ON A CROW THAN A NORMAL 180! its to do with the mechanics. go for it and good luck i really hope you nail it!

boarder52002 · Soul Rider Joined: 27 Jul 2004 Posts: 454 City: Chicago

hey toothpick, on my frontroll im getting the pop but underrotating. is there anything i can do to rotate faster. thanks

toothpick · Posted: Aug 09, 2004 10:43 pm Post subject:

boarder52002, you may not be keeping the handle down by your hip. If you let it out at all, that will slow your rotation. I've also known people to have a problem with opening up for the landing too quickly. You want to think about over-rotating on the move so you land with your weight over your toes. You could always try to grab the board indy too, that always speeds up the rotation.

Amy · Criminal Joined: 27 Apr 2004 Posts: 92 City: State College

boarder52002,
I had the same problem w/mine...what helped me was to tuck my roll more,(think about staying more compact, I was opening up my rotation too quickly...toothpick is so right about his tips to you... Wink

boarder52002 · Soul Rider Joined: 27 Jul 2004 Posts: 454 City: Chicago

ok im gonna go out this weekend and ill try that and get back to you guys on the results
thanks for the tips