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homemade wedge

 
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Knut Hein
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PostPosted: Jan 17, 2003 1:02 am    Post subject: homemade wedge Reply with quote

I now we had this topic already. Attached you will find some pictures I received from somebody who installed it like this. But I was not able to get any drawings.

Does anyone have any drawings to build one like this? Is it possilbe to get drawings?





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Geoff Standish
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PostPosted: Jan 17, 2003 8:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My word, that takes balls! I wouldn't mind knowing what his results were! I would think that could tear the whole rear end off your boat!
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RYDOG
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PostPosted: Jan 17, 2003 8:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does it work????
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Richie Martin
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PostPosted: Jan 17, 2003 9:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that malibu plays up the whole tearing the transom off thing.

Granted, those things create a lot of down force a transom on an inboard is extremely strong. I think that anyone with any common sense could make their own wedge.

The key would be testing...obviously there is no force when the boat is not moving, you gradually build up speed and see the results. Any idiot would be able to tell when the boat is under excessive strain. You would have to adjust the pitch in .01 degree increments. Time consuming...yes, worth it...yes.

If I had an older model inboard I would definately make one!!! Saves gas...better takeoff...better wake.


My props go out to anyone who does it!!!

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Knut Hein
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PostPosted: Jan 17, 2003 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

He was telling the wake was between 45 - 55 cm without any additional ballast in an Barefoot Nautique. The photos were taken of one of their other boats. I think this was a Sky Ray.

He also have sent me a video and the height of the wake you can see there is perfect.

They have stiffened the transom too.
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jedsterr
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PostPosted: Jan 18, 2003 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Knut, Is there any way we could get the user/builder of that wedge to post their story? how did they determine the angle to use? how much did it appear to improve the wake? I'm dying to hear since I came very close to doing this myself last winter. There were too many unknowns & I got a little scared. Now that I've seen pics of one which looks good I want to hear their story.

thanks -Jed
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bullzeke69
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PostPosted: Jan 18, 2003 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I with Jed, I would like to see the plans on it, also it is stated that they did stiffen up the transom. Would like to see what was done, I was also told by a Malibu dealer that the transom would rip off if I was to put that on my Centurion. Not to disagree with them but I would to see the proof of it but they did not have any, and told me that they could not and would not put it on my boat.
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jedsterr
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PostPosted: Jan 18, 2003 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I suspect that if you use a large backing plate and laminate it to the transom with glass I think it will hold just fine. The critical issue is wedge angle. If it is to steep you COULD damage the transom.

Would love to hear from those involved in it's development.

-J
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Jeff
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PostPosted: Jan 18, 2003 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wow that would deffinatly take balls to put that on your boat or a deep wallet, i wouldnt make that personally unless i had a malibu that was ment for teh wedge and i copied teh wege design from malibu, i know it probly could be used on outher boats but i wouldnt risk it
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kstateskier
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PostPosted: Jan 18, 2003 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm with Jeff, putting that things on anything other than a Malibu that was reinforced for the wedge would be plain stupid. You're right, it won't "pull the transom off the boat" but it will tear a nice hole where is rips those bolts right out of the hull. There is a reason Malibu will only sell Wedges to people with a Malibu hull ID. Don't you think Malibu would love to make extra $$ selling these aftermarket if they thought other manufacturers boats could handle them and they would not be liable when the thing tore a hole out of the hull?
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jedsterr
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PostPosted: Jan 18, 2003 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Of course Malibu is not going to expose themselves to the liability of people installing the wedge on a boat that wasn't built for them. I think its cuz they want to stay in buisness or something like that...

With the proper installation, though, I think that a wedge could be added to most inboard boats safely unless they say Moomba on the side.

That was just a joke about moombas. Don't flame me.
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Knut Hein
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PostPosted: Jan 22, 2003 9:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

He told me that we have installed a wooden backing plate of the shape of the transom together with a steel plate for the bolts. They sealed everything with sikaflex which is flexible. So it will be nearly impossible to rip of the transom as you need much more power than ripping off the bolts. I also want to drive with the wedge down only with boarding speed. Only idiots would go as fast as they can. I like Jeds idea of using additional fibre glass. But I donít know yet how to use it & where to get it.

Jed I can send you the video if you like. Itís 3,8 mb though. So you can make yourself your own opinion.
I donít get a reply form the guy anymore. In the last one he has promised me to send the plans. I have sent him 2 mails since than. I think thatís enough.

We have a Malibu with wedge in a club not far from here. Maybe I will take the measurements there if Iím not able to get the plans. For the base plate it would be maybe possible to use one of the u shaped metal bars which are normally used for constructional purposes. So you only have to construct a wedge that it fits to that one and would be able to produce different base plates in a cheap and easy way to find out the right angle.

In my opinion Malibu would be stupid to sell an aftermarket wedge. The wedge is their biggest advantage and a good reason to buy one of their boats. They want to sell boats and not accessories.

So if there are any wrong expressions. Iím german.
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OttoNP
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PostPosted: Jan 22, 2003 11:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let's think about this a little:

By added a wedge your putting a downward force on the rear of the boat, how much force will be determined by your speed and the angle of the wedge. The effect is the same as adding weight right at the attachment point. Malibu claims that it boost's the factory installed weight to 1900 lbs. Since the boat comes with a factory ballast system of about 1000 lbs, they claim it is like adding 900 pounds. Since it is at the very rear, it probably doesn't have to pull down with the whole 900 pounds, but it could be considered the max. So the question is if your transom can withstand that. Considering everything else that is connected to it, my opinion is that most boats could handle it. Of course if you tear your transom off, don't come crying to me, try it at your own risk, but I'd do it with my boat. Additionally, Malibu claims it can be safely added to any Malibu, even older ones before it existed. So there's no way they could have made the older boats anticipating it, but they may claim Malibu's have always been built tougher. Some places will tell you the same thing about towers, that some boats can't handle them, etc... It is pretty much just because they don't really know and don't want to deal with it.

Wedges are a pretty good idea, when your boat is moving slow they have little effect, so your boat isn't sitting as low in the water. Getting on plane should be about the same since your still aren't moving that fast, then as you speed up, more and more downforce is created, simulating weight.

Good Luck,
Nick
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Last edited by OttoNP on Feb 26, 2011 7:26 am; edited 1 time in total
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Ralph
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PostPosted: Jan 22, 2003 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A thought about starting with the wedge:
Even tho the boat is going slower the effective angle of the wedge will be MUCH greater than once under way due to bow rise, I wonder how much worse this would make the bow rise problem. Can anybody with the wedge give us a comparison of starting with and without the wedge?

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OttoNP
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PostPosted: Jan 22, 2003 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Think about that again...when the bow rises up the angle the wedge makes will increase opposite the angle needed to pull the back of the boat down.

Nick
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Last edited by OttoNP on Feb 26, 2011 7:26 am; edited 1 time in total
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bluefish86
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PostPosted: Jan 22, 2003 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the bow rises, won't the wedge tilt so it is pushing the stern up, making the boat plane faster?
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Ralph
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PostPosted: Jan 22, 2003 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh yeah, quite correct. Another advantage of wedge over weight!
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PostPosted: Jan 22, 2003 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wedge in the back needs weight in the front
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Knut Hein
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PostPosted: Jan 22, 2003 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They have installed the wedge in a Sky Ray and a Barefoot Nautique. The video shows the Barefoot. With the BFN of my friend we had the problem that if you put only weight in the back the wake is crumbling too much. We had to put it as far as possible in the front or beside the engine.

But in the video the wake shape looks good and is not showing the same effect we had when putting the weight only in the back. In the video they had 3 people on board and were using only the wedge without any additional ballast. The wake is only crumbling a bit on the opposite side of the rider. Maybe due to 3 people the weight was not balanced. With putting some extra jugs of water from one side to the other you may be able to handle it. That's the way how we handle it at the moment on the boat we are riding with.
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Mullet Man
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PostPosted: Jan 23, 2003 12:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As far as the transom handling it? Boats are lifted by the transom with no worries at all. If the boat can support its own weight of 2-3 thousand pounds, why not 1000 of downforce?

Not only would the proper angle of the wedge be affected by the transom angle at the correct boarding speed, but also by the water beinng pushed downward off of the rear of the plaining surface. On all boats water does bounce off the bottom, hence causeing drag on a wedge. Someone stated earlier that a wedge should hep you plain out faster, but because of this it actually does not help.

Why does Malibu not put the wedge on other boats? I was told once by a factory rep at a boat show that it would be too time consuming to make a "wedge Plate" for each companies transom layout. He said tha Malibu designs the layout of thier trasnom with the Wedge in mind, that way they mostly all share the same wedge plate. Other companies vary the transom configuration from boat model to boat model. My friend with a Mastercraft actually checked his boat versus some others he has seen and each model is slightly different in the configuration of the transom layout (exhaust ports, drain plug, step mounts, stuff like that.

I was out looking at my Wedge the other day and noticed it had the shape of an airplane wing, but upside down. Just by the shape of the wedge you build you could create down force, even running at 0 degrees when at boarding speed.

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billm
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PostPosted: Jan 23, 2003 7:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good points Mullet


Your right i ride on a few Vlx's and the wedge down makes the boat plane like shiat so we put an extra 600lbs on top of the mls in the front and still with all bags full it does not plain well at all but the wake is awesome..The wedge also makes the boat turn badly and burn more gas but the upside makes it worth it..I like the Mailbu with the wedge.

so when are you making them to sell to us ..Tell your friends we want in on the action Laughing

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billm
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PostPosted: Jan 23, 2003 7:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OH BTW the shape of the wedge is called a reverse hydrofoil which has the effect on pulling down instead of pushing up..
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Sandbag
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PostPosted: Jan 23, 2003 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think a good test would be to put 1000lbs on your swim platform
and see what happens.

My guess is the transom can handle the stress easily.
Great point about the lifting points on the transom!
if you look at the backing plates for the lifting points they aren't
that big. I think a little goes a long way for a backing plate.
I'm not a mechanical engineer but I play one on TV.

Seriously there are a lot of great points on this post.
Malibu is definitely not in the business of selling accesorries.

I'd be willing to try one on my 2001 Toyota. I ain't scared!
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jedsterr
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PostPosted: Jan 24, 2003 9:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sandbag!!!!! that is awesome! keep us posted & show us pics along the way if you can. thanks -Jed
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billm
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PostPosted: Jan 24, 2003 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now if Malibu can come up with an automated version of the wedge where we dont have to reach under the boat to put it down and pull it up.Its not a problem in the summer but lately in the winter your hands freeze off while doing this..man if they made and auto up and down one that would seal the deal i would buy one of my own for sure Cool
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tn_guy212000
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PostPosted: Jan 24, 2003 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok im a newbie and i have heard all the stories of how awesome these wedges are. what is the earliest model of malibu boat that malibu makes the wedge for.
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Knut Hein
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PostPosted: Feb 11, 2003 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

additional pics Barefoot Nautique



















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w$r az style
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PostPosted: Feb 11, 2003 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dude! thats sick to be able to make your own. mad props!
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jedsterr
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PostPosted: Feb 11, 2003 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It looks great.
I'm no NASA scientist but the angle of attack seems a little steep. I'm only working from memory here but I think that the malibu angle was only about 3 degrees off from the bottom of the hull.

Thaks for the pics. It's inspiring!

-J
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billm
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PostPosted: Feb 11, 2003 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

it is a lot more at an angle then a Malibu wedge but it loks like he had no choice witht he rudder sticking out so far..Or it that the pic that makes the rudder look so close to the wedge???

Still cool id like to build one for my boat but thats not going to happen as of now..

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Jay Dutton
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PostPosted: Feb 12, 2003 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Any wake pics before and after the wedge? How does it perform? Looks interesting.
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Fishmaster
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PostPosted: Aug 11, 2004 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How about an update from Knut Hein on if the boat has shown any problems or stress cracking from it?
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PostPosted: Aug 18, 2004 4:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alex sent me an update via e-mail I wanted to share:

"They have no problems at all. Both boats are still using it.

On the Ski Ray (the first boat) they use the wedge like it is. On the
barefoot nautique they have changed the angle a bit so that it is not
that step anymore. Both boats use only the wedge. The wake on the
barefoot is knee high.

I haven't installed it on my boat as I got a 89 SN 2001. They have a
kink in the middle of the transom and the exhaust is in the middle too
so that we can not install the base plate for the wedge"

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PostPosted: Jul 29, 2016 7:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is a SUPER OLD thread... But I'm hoping someone has a contact for Knut Hein or links to any pics/videos of the homemade wedges.

Oss!

Thaddeus

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