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Paper or...uhhh, paper?

 
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Okie Boarder
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PostPosted: Oct 01, 2014 7:08 am    Post subject: Paper or...uhhh, paper? Reply with quote

Seems like a good idea, we definitely create a lot of trash pollution with plastic bags. This could increase the use of paper bags, which could have its own environmental impact if we don't have enough supply from recycling. the $.10 fee seems unnecessary.

Quote:
SACRAMENTO, Calif. (AP) — Gov. Jerry Brown on Tuesday signed the nation's first statewide ban on single-use plastic bags at grocery and convenience stores, driven to action by pollution in streets and waterways.

A national coalition of plastic bag manufacturers immediately said it would seek a voter referendum to repeal the law, which is scheduled to take effect in July 2015.

Under SB270, plastic bags will be phased out of checkout counters at large grocery stores and supermarkets such as Wal-Mart and Target starting next summer, and convenience stores and pharmacies in 2016. The law does not apply to bags used for fruits, vegetables or meats, or to shopping bags used at other retailers. It allows grocers to charge a fee of at least 10 cents for using paper bags.

State Sen. Alex Padilla, D-Los Angeles, credits the momentum for statewide legislation to the more than 100 cities and counties, including Los Angeles and San Francisco, that already have such bans.

The law marks a major milestone for environmental activists who have successfully pushed plastic bag bans in cities across the U.S., including Chicago, Austin and Seattle. Hawaii is also on track to have a de-facto statewide ban, with all counties approving prohibitions.

"This bill is a step in the right direction — it reduces the torrent of plastic polluting our beaches, parks and even the vast ocean itself," Brown said in a signing statement. "We're the first to ban these bags, and we won't be the last."

Plastic bag manufacturers have aggressively pushed back through their trade group, the American Progressive Bag Alliance, which aired commercials in California blasting the ban as a cash-giveaway to grocers that would lead to a loss of thousands of manufacturing jobs.

"If this law were allowed to go into effect, it would jeopardize thousands of California manufacturing jobs, hurt the environment and fleece consumers for billions so grocery store shareholders and their union partners can line their pockets," Lee Califf, executive director of the manufacturer trade group, said in a statement.

Padilla, the bill's author, said Californians would reject a referendum effort and quickly adapt their behavior to help the environment.

"For those folks concerned about the 10 cent fee that may be charged for paper, the simple elegant solution is to bring a reusable bag to the store," Padilla said.

Shoppers leaving a Ralphs supermarket Tuesday in downtown San Diego were divided as they weighed the legislation's environmental benefits against its costs. San Diego does not ban plastic bags.

"With the amount of waste that we produce, we can try to help out by slightly inconveniencing ourselves," said Megan Schenfeld, 29, whose arms were full of groceries in plastic bags after leaving reusable bags at home.

Robert Troxell, a 69-year-old former newspaper editor, said the fees are more than an inconvenience for retirees living on fixed incomes like him. He shops daily because he has only a small refrigerator in his hotel for low-income seniors.

"It becomes a flat tax on senior citizens," said Troxell, who lives off social security and other government assistance. "I have not disagreed with Jerry Brown on anything — until this."

The American Forest and Paper Association, a trade group representing paper bag makers, says the bill unfairly penalizes consumers who use their commonly recycled products, while holding reusable plastic bags to a lower standard for recyclable content.

Responding to the concerns about job losses, the bill includes $2 million in loans for plastic bag manufacturers to shift their operations to make reusable bags. That provision won the support of Los Angeles Democratic Sens. Kevin De Leon and Ricardo Lara, who had blocked earlier versions of the legislation.

Lawmakers of both parties who opposed SB270 said it would penalize lower-income residents by charging them for bags they once received for free. The bill was amended to waive fees for customers who are on public assistance and limit how grocers can spend the proceeds from the fees.

Massachusetts, New Jersey, Rhode Island and Puerto Rico also have pending legislation that would ban single-use bags, according to the National Conference of State Legislatures.


http://news.yahoo.com/brown-says-hes-likely-sign-070121415.html

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E.J.
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PostPosted: Oct 01, 2014 7:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No problem with it.

Hell, I'd have no problem with getting rid of bags all together. A grocery saying, come with something to carry your groceries or take a cart to your vehicle and unload there....we won't be supplying you bags any longer.

I agree with State Sen. Padilla, people will adapt just fine.

If Mr. Troxell cannot remember to take a sack daily to get his goods, that his problem.
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fish6942
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PostPosted: Oct 01, 2014 8:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

E.J. wrote:
No problem with it.

Hell, I'd have no problem with getting rid of bags all together. A grocery saying, come with something to carry your groceries or take a cart to your vehicle and unload there....we won't be supplying you bags any longer.

I agree with State Sen. Padilla, people will adapt just fine.

If Mr. Troxell cannot remember to take a sack daily to get his goods, that his problem.


That's somewhat the approach that ALDI takes.




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ohsix
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PostPosted: Oct 01, 2014 8:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In West Texas you can almost figure your proximity to Walmart by the concentration of plastic bags on mesquite trees (which are actually bushes).

I'm all for getting rid of them and charging a small fee for decent paper bags which would preferably have reinforced grab handles. It will only take people a few trips to the store to remember their reusable bags if they would like to use them.

Texas is probably too conservative to tell people what kind of grocery sacks to use, but I would be happy if such a law were passed here.
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chavez
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PostPosted: Oct 01, 2014 8:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Costco has figured out how to exist without bags all this time... of course they will happily hand you a used produce or mega-size-mayonnaise box so you can keep them groceries from rolling around in the trunk.

We just keep reusable bags in our cars. Not a big deal. Plus the reusable bags are lightyears stronger than the paper or plastic bags at the stores.


Realistically... paper v plastic is a false choice. Plastic doesn't biodegrade, but paper takes more energy to produce. Both have their issues.

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RampageWake
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PostPosted: Oct 01, 2014 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I love my plastic bags. (a.k.a mexican suitcase)
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PostPosted: Oct 01, 2014 11:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Many cities in TX already have this. I think Austin is baggless already. Its really no big deal. I prefer the reusable bags anyway. Can get alot more in them, therefore easier to carry everything in, as opposed to the giant physics project of looping a billion plasitc bags around your hands.

The only issue is the idea that people dont wash their reusables and they get nasty and risk disease.

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eeven73
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PostPosted: Oct 01, 2014 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Then there is the "carbon footprint" arguement versus reusable bags.

Also, the healthrisk of improper use of reusables(germs from reidues of meats from previous uses) cross contaminating uncooked items.

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scott a
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PostPosted: Oct 01, 2014 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

San Jose and a few neighboring cities banned plastic bags awhile ago and there hasn't been any huge uproar here about any of that. I do also wonder about the "Hummer vs Prius" sort of "carbon footprint" argument though.

The ban doesn't matter much for me since I just push the cart out to my truck and offload everything into the back...or I take a backpack if I'm on foot patrol or skateboard because carrying bags around over distance sucks anyways.

Next item up for state-wide ban will undoubtedly be the styrofoam takeout container.

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