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chavez
Ladies Man
Joined: 22 Sep 2003
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City: Roseville
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 Posted: Jul 25, 2014 11:10 am Post subject: |
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jgriffith, tall fescue, to be specific.
http://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu/archives/parsons/turf/publications/tallfesc.html
| TL;DR wrote: | | In the United States, tall fescue is found from the Pacific Northwest to the southern states in low-lying pastures. Although it grows best in moist environments, tall fescue has good drought tolerance and will survive during dry periods in a dormant state. |
PS: I already water less than what the experts recommend. I think I will listen to their opinions about the subject, and find a happy medium that works for my yard. There are really only 3 months of heavy use (Jun-Jul-Aug). The rest of the year the landscape gets next to nothing.
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Neognosis
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Joined: 13 Jan 2003
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City: Webster
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| Posted: Jul 26, 2014 7:27 am Post subject: |
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Is that a weed in my fescue?
HELL NO, Roundup to the rescue!
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jason_ssr
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Joined: 13 Jan 2003
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City: Dallas, Tx
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| Posted: Jul 27, 2014 9:40 am Post subject: |
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| Neognosis wrote: | Scuba gear... that's not even remotely related to the logic, and it would seem to indicate that you either dont' understand the opposite viewpoint, or you are just putting random words together.
Do, you think that the City of Detroit will let a crowd of people with plastic bottles into their water treatment plants to dip into the water with some buckets to carry home?
I'm curious as to whether they can do this. Does anyone know if the city of detroit has a water plant with a spigot on the outside that you can show up to and fill up some buckets? Maybe you can. I have a feeling that there's issues with transportation to the treatment plant and whatnot, and I also suspect that you can't just show up and fill some buckets up for free either.
I suspect that what you wrote is ridiculous. |
You will die without water, and you will die without air. Its not the tax bases responsibility to provide you with either. It is up to you to change your situation to ensure you have what you need. If you cant afford water to your living space then you either need to find another source or relocate closer to a source. If you cant afford scuba tanks, then you cannot go deep diving. You have to stay close to surface\source of air. Water to the house and air stored in tanks are luxury items.
Are you telling me that if the water was shut off to your house and you couldnt buy any, that you in all your resourcefulness could not get clean water for your kids? I guarantee you could. Yes, it might be an inconvenience, but you could.
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eeven73
PityDaFool Who Posts This Much
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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City: Halfway
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| Posted: Jul 28, 2014 6:56 am Post subject: |
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Personal responsibility is so passe.
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chavez
Ladies Man
Joined: 22 Sep 2003
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City: Roseville
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| Posted: Jul 28, 2014 6:58 am Post subject: |
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Scuba and respirator masks aside, exactly how am I supposed to have control over the air I breathe?
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| Quote: | | That's Mr. Gingermex to you a$$hole. |
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jason_ssr
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City: Dallas, Tx
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| Posted: Jul 28, 2014 8:04 am Post subject: |
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The point is that people who like living in a certain place pay to have water sent to them. If they do not they have to go get it themselves, or change locations to one where they can live AND afford water. Just because you enjoy a particular location, doesnt mean its my responsibility to make it convienent for you to to get water.
People who like to spend large ammounts of time underwater pay to have air provided to them. If they do not then its up to them to go get it the hard way or relocate closer to the surface so its always easy. Just because you want to spend time in deep water, but dont want to pay for an air supply, doesnt make it my problem.
I like living away from the city. My job is in the city. Its a 1hr commute each way. I cannot afford the gas to get to work. Should I:
A. Move closer to work
B. Move somewhere cheap so I can afford the gas
C. Buy a vehicle that get a mileage I can afford
D. Get the tax base to pay for my fuel so I dont have to take responsibility for my own situation
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goofyboy
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| Posted: Jul 28, 2014 8:31 am Post subject: |
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Many people would say D because the other 3 are racist.
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Faust
Wakeboarder.Commie
Joined: 20 May 2005
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| Posted: Jul 28, 2014 9:10 am Post subject: |
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E. Quit your job because you aren't earning enough to pay $10000/year for gas and vehicle repairs simply to commute to/from work, and chances are slim that you have the means to move or purchase a different vehicle under these circumstances. 10% of your life is devoted to the commute. Its a wonder you can get anything done outside of work to begin with. Whose idea was it to move an hour from your job anyway? Was it your significant other? If so, the two of you should have a serious talk (after you quit your job). This was all their fault. Didn't they care about your wants and needs at all? Now look at you. Both struggling to get by, both stay at home parents. But hey, at least you are out in the suburbs. No longer paying those ridiculous gas prices. And you can keep your car and house. Even though they aren't paid off yet. So technically it isn't quite your car and house yet...
What were we talking about again? |
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Neognosis
Ladies Man
Joined: 13 Jan 2003
Posts: 17617
City: Webster
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| Posted: Jul 28, 2014 9:59 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | You will die without water, and you will die without air. Its not the tax bases responsibility to provide you with either. |
That is extremely myopic. And it's also false. The government uses our taxes to enforce conservation laws to make sure that the air retains a level of cleanliness, and they also use a portion of our taxes to make sure that there is clean water. And to make sure that it can be delivered to us.
If you don't understand the economic and health benefits to YOU to provide everyone with clean water and clean air, I don't think we have much of a base from which to launch a discussion.
| Quote: | It is up to you to change your situation to ensure you have what you need. If you cant afford water to your living space then you either need to find another source or relocate closer to a source. If you cant afford scuba tanks, then you cannot go deep diving.
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Sometimes I'm amazed that they let you get out of college without apparently understanding any human history whatsoever. Do you know what happens to a society if they fail to provide clean water? That's not rhetorical, I'm really asking if you understand why the ability to move water from one area to another and provide it to the general population was a giant leap forward in the stop of the spread of disease and the explosion of economic prosperity. I don't think you ever learned that. Not to mention the economic benefits of allowing people to live far away from natural water sources. I don't think you understand what happens to water when you require people to get it themselves, or how much water is tied to war and disease when it is not readily available.
Seriously, the statements you made really make me question if you understand much about what makes a civilization flourish at all.
| Quote: | | Water to the house and air stored in tanks are luxury items. |
air stored in tanks, sure. Water provided to the population is a requirement for any civilization to thrive.
You are an EXCELLENT illustration of why universities should focus more on graduating well rounded students who understand society and civilization.
| Quote: | | Are you telling me that if the water was shut off to your house and you couldnt buy any, that you in all your resourcefulness could not get clean water for your kids? I guarantee you could. Yes, it might be an inconvenience, but you could. |
There is a reservoir near my home, and we border lake ontario. Let me tell you what would happen if my city had to go get water from those sources. This is not just my speculation, this is what happens when large numbers of people have to forage for water.
Those who got it from Ontario would need to boil the water before drinking it. This requires fuel. Hopefully, in your world where water is not piped to a convenient location, fuel is also readily available. Because if it is not, either a lot of people would be dying of water born illness (ontario is not fit to drink without boiling beyond a certain threshold) or else they would be cutting down trees and burning wood to boil the water. I'm assuming that you also don't understand why a society has to avoid massive deforestation, but I've already wasted too much time on that...
those who go to the reservoir, a much smaller body of water, would end up bathing in it (because this is what people do... see the Ganges in India as an example) rather than carting back gallons and gallons every day. This spreads disease very rapidly, as the water table becomes unable to biologically process all the bits of siht and waste and sweat that end up in the water. I'm assuming you don't know much about what happens when you introduce these things into a small body of water, although maybe you do, as it is something that you've probably had direct experience with, so you might understand it a little. If so, you know what will happen to that water.
Also, while we are all driving water back and forth all day, or carrying it, we aren't making money or contributing to the society, because we are spending all day getting water.
War would also break out, as one group or another claims the natural water sources and fight over them to protect them. Or, the gov't would have to step in to prevent fighting over water. Because you've just taken something that has little scarcity and made it very valuable.
So, no readily available water = war, famine, disease, economic collapse.
By the way, to address your equally silly black and white, myopic "I live far from work" example, WHEN fuel becomes cost prohibitive, there will be civil projects in mass transit from the suburbs to the city and to other suburbs. Why? Do you also not understand what happens to a society where people can't move and/or are crowded into small urban areas? (I hope that they have easy access to clean water) You only have to go 150 years back in American history to see.
There will either be civil mass transit, or virtual workspaces created for suburbs near where people live. Because if not, the results will be disastrous. At least without a massive overhaul of urban infrastructure. Oh, hey, that would include providing ready access to clean water!
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Neognosis
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City: Webster
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| Posted: Jul 28, 2014 10:07 am Post subject: |
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Let me sum up the above for most everyone who didn't want to read it:
No readily available clean water = disease, war, economic collapse
No access to scuba tanks = frustrated divers.
Not the same.
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jason_ssr
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| Posted: Jul 28, 2014 11:04 am Post subject: |
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You are confusing "denial of water" with refusing to pump it to their house for free.
I understand your point, just dont agree with the continuing advance of socialism. You believe that services that are used by the majority of the population can arbitrarily be deemed "rights" for the greater good. I dont. I believe reinforcing personal accountability is for the greater good in the long run. Again, they are not being denied water, its just becoming more inconvienent for them.
| Quote: | | Do you know what happens to a society if they fail to provide clean water? |
Who is they? Im well aware of what bad water can do. Ive boiled my fair share. Humanity survived for many centuries without "they" providing water to the masses.
Bottom line is that I dont like society becoming dependent on the government to provide anything but protection from the outside and protection of our basic rights internally. You believe that the governments taxing power should be used to create entitlements. The problem is there is no end to what can be entitled. Entitelments will topple any government over time. When the government is gone and the living generations do not know how to survive without government provisions, what will they do?
Should electricity be entitled? Can a modern person survive without it? What about natural gas? Should that be entitled? Humans need heat.
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eeven73
PityDaFool Who Posts This Much
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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City: Halfway
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| Posted: Jul 28, 2014 11:08 am Post subject: |
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From each according to his ability, to each according to his need
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jgriffith
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City: Boerne
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| Posted: Jul 28, 2014 2:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Neognosis wrote: | Let me sum up the above for most everyone who didn't want to read it:
No readily available clean water = disease, war, economic collapse
No access to scuba tanks = frustrated divers.
Not the same. |
I think you are confused, their IS readily available water in Detroit...I'm amazed you were able to get through school without that basic knowledge |
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Neognosis
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City: Webster
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| Posted: Jul 28, 2014 2:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Who is they? Im well aware of what bad water can do. Ive boiled my fair share. Humanity survived for many centuries without "they" providing water to the masses. |
"They" is the society. In the past, when "they" (a civilization) started moving water from one location to another, and provided water to urban inhabitants, the public health and economy improve drastically. It's really pretty simple.
For many centuries people died en masse of things like amebiasis, hepatitus A, e.coli infection, Cholera, Giardiasis, etc.
We don't generally see these diseases widespread anymore, and today, there is VIRTUALLY NO chance that one of your children will contract one of these and die.
That's how humanity survived... with a large number of people dying of these diseases. And those are just WATER BORNE illnesses. There's a whole list of diseases that we used to die of routinely, but no longer see on any large scale, because of clean water used to clean ourselves and our clothes, and carry away waste. For instance, typhoid, dysentery, Hepatitis, etc.
No access to clean water = death.
[quote]You believe that the governments taxing power should be used to create entitlements. The problem is there is no end to what can be entitled. Entitelments will topple any government over time.[quote]
I believe in SOME entitlements... because it is absolute stupidity to not provide clean water and sanitation, and ultimately (in short order, if history shows us anything) will hurt YOU.
You are taking a valid philosophical and political idea... anti-socialism, and carrying it through to a RIDICULOUS extent that would result in the spread of disease and serious damage to the economy.
Our city (Rochester, NY) provides garbage pick up paid for by taxes. Should we do away with that to? Do I need to write a few paragraphs on what happens to the public health when people start throwing garbage in the street?
The suburbs don't provide trash pickup, you have to pay for that. And it works, because we all do so and can afford to do so easily, so there's no need. (you also would face fines and ultimately lose your property here if you just let garbage pile up... I imagine you consider that an overreach of the local town's power?)
No access to clean water and sanitation = death and economic ruin.
| Quote: | | Ive boiled my fair share. |
Please... please tell us where you lived, and for how long, that you had to boil water to avoid water borne illness. I'll wager most of us, myself included, have spent a week in the woods or at a rustic cabin where we boiled water. Surely, you aren't comparing this to a hypothetical situation where people from an urban setting are dipping buckets into the local river or canal for survival.... you CAN'T be that silly.
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jt09
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City: Austin
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| Posted: Jul 28, 2014 2:36 pm Post subject: |
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| vintage cb |
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chavez
Ladies Man
Joined: 22 Sep 2003
Posts: 27375
City: Roseville
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| Posted: Jul 28, 2014 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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Werd.
I do like that this thread is back on topic and no longer calling me out for wasting water. 
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RampageWake
Wakeboarder.Commie
Joined: 23 Jul 2003
Posts: 2002
City: Houston
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| Posted: Jul 28, 2014 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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Yea, always pondering and pontificating, scared of what will become if we don't have the gov't. (i.e. the taxpayers putting in more than we take out) do __________ for the greater good. I remember him ringing alarm bells years back about MMGW and the sea level rising soon. I believe I noted that I probably was closer to sea level and had more to lose if that ever happened, but you can guess how high sea level rising ranks on my give a shitt list...
I'm still high and dry with my head in the sand, apparently. 
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goofyboy
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| Posted: Jul 29, 2014 3:27 am Post subject: |
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| chavez wrote: |
Werd.
I do like that this thread is back on topic and no longer calling me out for wasting water. |
Water waster. 
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jason_ssr
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| Posted: Jul 29, 2014 4:03 am Post subject: |
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LMAO!! You asked if I knew what would happen if clean water wasnt comsumed. I said I did as I have boiled water myself to avoid such consequences and avert such risks. You go on to list the diseases clean water prevents.
So, If clean water prevents disease and illness, and one cannot boil water camping for the same reason, why did YOU boil water camping? Either you have some unique reasoning for boiling drinking water while camping or doing so proves you understand the risk of waterborn disease. I compared nothing.
| Quote: | | No access to clean water and sanitation = death and economic ruin. |
Who is denying them access? Refusing to pump it to their house is not denial of access, just like not providing trash pickup doesnt mean they have to live in their garbage. When I miss trash day, I dont just spread it in my yard and roll around in it. I load it up and take it to the dump myself. Inconvienent? Yes! Dying of disease because someone else isnt doing it for me? No.
| Quote: | | Please... please tell us where you lived, and for how long, that you had to boil water to avoid water borne illness. |
Im not sure why it matters, but ok.
Santa Fe, TX - 3mths no water to the house (well being repaired)
Matamoros, MX - 2mths (its um, Mexico)
| Quote: | | because of clean water used to clean ourselves and our clothes |
So, if clean clothes improves health risk ( I believe it does without a doubt), then shouldnt all washer and dryer sets be paid for by tax money? I mean, humans cant be expected to hand wash dirty clothes. They arent animals. My set is over 20 years old. Ive replaced every operational part on both of them more than once. Am I entitled two a nice new front loader set? Your logic says I am.
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Neognosis
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| Posted: Jul 29, 2014 6:36 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Who is denying them access? Refusing to pump it to their house is not denial of access, just like not providing trash pickup doesnt mean they have to live in their garbage. When I miss trash day, I dont just spread it in my yard and roll around in it. I load it up and take it to the dump myself |
But history, and even the present era in places like parts of India, shows us that people do not do this. When there is not clean water pumped to an easy to access location, people get sick, people die, the economy suffers.
When there was no garbage collection, and even today, people just leave it out. I was in Naples during a garbage strike. Guess what? People weren't driving it to the dump, they just threw it on the curb. For weeks.
Let's take this back to a basic level and talk about one thing at a time:
Do you agree that easy access to clean water and sanitation are essential for public health and the economy?
Is that the pivot point where our disagreement begins?
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eeven73
PityDaFool Who Posts This Much
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Jul 29, 2014 6:40 am Post subject: |
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my brain just exploded.
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jason_ssr
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| Posted: Jul 29, 2014 8:50 am Post subject: |
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| Neognosis wrote: | Do you agree that easy access to clean water and sanitation are essential for public health and the economy?
Is that the pivot point where our disagreement begins? |
I agree that access to clean water and practicing sanitary living are essential for human health and therefore economy. I dont think the ease of access nor cleaning everyones mess is a burden to be shared only among the tax paying citizens.
You think social programs are beneficial to the population because of the short term gain. I believe they are detrimental to society because of the long term loss of self reliance and personal accountability. This is where we will always disagree.
Countries like India do not have much opportunity around. No amount of effort will result in better living, so they stop putting forth extra effort. America does have opportunity. Anyone anywhere can make an extra $20 whether you want to believe it or not. Sometimes it takes a little discomfort\inconvienence to motivate people to do so, and they are better for it in the long run.
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Neognosis
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| Posted: Jul 29, 2014 11:47 am Post subject: |
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That's where we are never going to agree.
I think I'm a pragmatist in recognizing the reality of the situation, while I believe you hold to myopic ideas based in philosophical musings that historically have not been valid.
| Quote: | | You think social programs are beneficial to the population because of the short term gain. I believe they are detrimental to society because of the long term loss of self reliance and personal accountability. |
Providing clean water is not a "short term" gain. It's very long term and fundamental for the development of large towns and cities.
as an aside, you are mistaken about India. They have a large economy that has shown a huge upswing since 1991, but that's a discussion for another thread.
You are also mistaken about "anyone anywhere can make an extra 20 dollars anytime."
I hope nothing ever happens in your life to show you how mistaken you are about that.
But enough of that, you said that you agreed that access to clean water and sanitation are necessary for public health and the economy. So we have a place to start where we agree.
What do you think would happen if they shut off the water to, say, 1/4 of the city of New York (which has access to both fresh and salt water) and they stopped garbage pick up. What do you envision happening?
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eeven73
PityDaFool Who Posts This Much
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| Posted: Jul 29, 2014 11:49 am Post subject: |
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Stop Strawmaning.
Bubb Rubb you are painful
It is essentially free. Your wish already happens. Not good enough?
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goofyboy
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| Posted: Jul 29, 2014 11:51 am Post subject: |
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Actually, anyone, MOST anywhere can make an extra $20. One just has to hustle and make it happen.
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RampageWake
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| Posted: Jul 29, 2014 12:12 pm Post subject: |
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| goofyboy wrote: | | Actually, anyone, MOST anywhere can make an extra $20. One just has to hustle and make it happen. |
A mentor a long time ago told me basically, "Look, if you really want to, you'll make it happen; if you don't you'll make excuses..."
The people they interviewed on the news getting water turned off were not crippled and mentally disabled, they were able bodied work capable people.
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jason_ssr
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| Posted: Jul 30, 2014 6:08 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | What do you think would happen if they shut off the water to, say, 1/4 of the city of New York (which has access to both fresh and salt water) and they stopped garbage pick up. What do you envision happening? |
This is way off point, but Ill play. It depends why its shut off, and who it affects.
If it is due to an act of God, then it will be a national disaster, and myself and every other tax payer would gladly pay the bill to help. If those people just decided to stop paying (quality problems, or price gouging) then the outcome would be different for the rich\working class, and those dependent on entitlements. The working group will pay to get their water elsewhere or move to where they can get water or reasonable price\quality. They will pay someone else to remove their waste or they will remove it themselves. Those dependent on the government will complain about it and riot. They will let the garbage pile up, because it not their job.
See, you keep bringing up the economy, but it seems you dont understand what the economy is or how it works. As humans, we are accountable for our own survival. That means providing our own food, water, shelter, and protection. We determined that some of us are better at some things than others. So we do the things we are good at in surplus, so that it may be exchanged for services in which others are better. One may raise cattle better, one may make cloth better. They are both responsible for acquiring meat and cloth for themselves but they do so in trade. each gets to determine the value of what they provide and a deal is struck. An economy is born.
Your socialism poisons this economy. The service provider is then dictated who he services, dictated his product value, and forces all to pay for it whether they use it or not.
Yes, you can fool yourself into thinking things are far more complex, and any number red herrings need to be considered, but its not. A municipality decided to create a revenue stream and a location incentive by creating a water infrastructure and providing a service of water to its residents for a small fee. Some decided to stop paying the fee so they stopped getting the service. They do not have a right to this service and it does nobody any good to force everyone else to pay it for them. Yes, you will allow a few who mismanaged their income to take a shower today, but you create a dependence on socialism for a lifetime.
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vette74
Wakeboarder.Commie
Joined: 30 Jul 2003
Posts: 2144
City: Houston
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Broccoli B
Wakeboarder.com Freak
Joined: 12 Jul 2003
Posts: 2670
City: Grand Rapids
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| Posted: Aug 01, 2014 9:05 am Post subject: |
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Well, the drought is getting worse. All the while Chaves is using more water per month than my house can use in 9 months.
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Brent B
| jt09 wrote: | | don't assume what you think i assume. you would assume wrong. |
| lcap wrote: | | you assume that i assume that my assuming is wrong and assume your assumption therefore must be correct. |
Last edited by Broccoli B on Aug 01, 2014 9:56 am; edited 1 time in total |
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jt09
Ladies Man
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 22083
City: Austin
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| Posted: Aug 01, 2014 9:38 am Post subject: |
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| f*ing chavez. he's the worst! |
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Faust
Wakeboarder.Commie
Joined: 20 May 2005
Posts: 1496
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| Posted: Aug 02, 2014 6:43 am Post subject: |
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| Chavez is using more water per month than the entire country of Kenya uses per year. |
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chavez
Ladies Man
Joined: 22 Sep 2003
Posts: 27375
City: Roseville
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| Posted: Aug 04, 2014 6:33 am Post subject: |
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I heard Chavez uses 1,000 gallons of water just to boil pasta! F'ing bastard he is!
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| Quote: | | That's Mr. Gingermex to you a$$hole. |
RIP MHL 04/25/1958 - 01/11/2006 |
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goofyboy
Wakeboarder.com Freak
Joined: 19 Jul 2004
Posts: 4463
City: Houston
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| Posted: Aug 04, 2014 6:42 am Post subject: |
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well, damn, i mean the pasta has to be cooked just right. 
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fish6942
Addict
Joined: 22 Feb 2006
Posts: 603
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| Posted: Aug 04, 2014 8:22 am Post subject: |
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| Chavez - Maybe you can skip the repeat part of "Wash, Rinse, Repeat". |
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RampageWake
Wakeboarder.Commie
Joined: 23 Jul 2003
Posts: 2002
City: Houston
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| Posted: Sep 28, 2014 4:28 pm Post subject: |
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http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/09/22/detroit-tells-judge-cant-give-away-free-water/?intcmp=obnetwork
| Quote: | As of July 31, at least $86 million was owed on accounts overdue for at least 60 days.
John C. Smith said he and his mother could lose water as soon as Tuesday after being cut off for a few months last winter. He owes about $1,100.
His spending habits were questioned by attorney Thomas O'Brien, who asked about his cellphone bill. Smith said his sister pays it. |
Sister pays the sail fone, nome sane? Well, I guess your sister can pay your water bill too next month!
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| Rhawn wrote: | You should have a less retarded friend read over your posts before you hit "Submit"
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RIP M.H.Legge |
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