Hobby Lobby Decision

nmballa · Posted: Jul 05, 2014 4:22 pm Post subject:

No, your wrong, sorry. How many times have you used it outside of the USA? If zero, then your opinion is invalidated. Discussion over.

jgriffith · Posted: Jul 05, 2014 4:32 pm Post subject:

Sorry, you are wrong. We have the best healthcare you can buy.

Since you asked I was born in panama and grew up in europe....so a lot, you? Didnt think so, discussion over

E.J. · Ladies Man Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Posts: 7597 City: Mogadishu

Sort of circular argument.... But assuming one you pay Bugatti, one you pay Honda....meh....for X fam making 100k a year, really...Bugatti? I want to get healthy....

Neognosis · Ladies Man Joined: 13 Jan 2003 Posts: 17617 City: Webster

This guy thinks our healthcare costs are so expensive is because we have a lack of bargaining power.

He also says that americans pay more tax money per capita on health care than the brits and the germans, etc.

http://www.upworthy.com/his-first-4-sentences-are-interesting-the-5th-blew-my-mind-and-made-me-a-little-sick-2?c=reccon1

nmballa · Posted: Jul 06, 2014 6:29 pm Post subject:

jgriffith · Posted: Jul 06, 2014 6:39 pm Post subject:

nmballa, im glad you finally agree with me and have ended the discusion

Neognosis · Ladies Man Joined: 13 Jan 2003 Posts: 17617 City: Webster

Father in-law dying of terminal cancer right now. He went to the hospital last week for a few days due to some pretty bad chemo issues.

Twice someone ordered a medication that is contraindicated to his chemo meds, and my MIL had to correct them. You don't know how to read a f'ing electronic chart? WTF?

We sure as F better NOT have the best healthcare in the world, or the world is in pretty bad shape. I'm confident that most of you have stories like this.

jgriffith · Posted: Jul 07, 2014 3:56 am Post subject:

EVERY country has stories like this. News flash not all doctors are the best doctors.

goofyboy · Posted: Jul 07, 2014 4:19 am Post subject:

Also, not all nurses are the best nurses. To contradict your story:

My BIL went into MD Anderson Cancer Center in Houston. He lived in the ICU, in a private room for the last 6 months of his life battling Non-Hodgekins Lymphoma. He actually did receive the best care in the world. Also, since it is a teaching hospital and they take on charity cases, it cost him and my sister $0.

BUT with that said, even with the best care in the world, he died. The doctors told us when he was admitted that he would be cured or dead in 6 - 9 months. He was unfortunately part of the 20% that do not make it.

Neognosis · Ladies Man Joined: 13 Jan 2003 Posts: 17617 City: Webster

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy

Number 35!

Of course, it's probably due to our diet and such, but you would expect a better ranking if we had the BEST healthcare in the world, wouldn't you?

How do you determine that the US healthcare is the "best?"

What numbers support that? We say that all the time, but on what do we base that?

goofyboy · Posted: Jul 07, 2014 5:40 am Post subject:

I think US health care is the best when you look at the number of hospitals that deal with the major issues - Cancer and Heart Disease. For cancer, MD Anderson Cancer Center in Houston, John Hopkins and the Mayo Clinic are the best in the world. That is based on success rates, new technology, and research.

I do not think we are the tops in basic / preventative care. We are not the worst, though. BUT - how much of that is social vs. quality of care? You just pointed out that we are not the tops of life expectancy. Our choices of diet and lack of exercise as a nation contribute to that. Doctors can only do so much.

Swass · Soul Rider Joined: 27 Oct 2011 Posts: 427

I disagree with the ruling.

That is all.

eeven73 · Posted: Jul 11, 2014 4:54 pm Post subject:

nmballa · Posted: Jul 12, 2014 8:57 am Post subject:

Neognosis · Ladies Man Joined: 13 Jan 2003 Posts: 17617 City: Webster

sigh... yes, just like corporations, government organizations have mistakes and issues as well.

Do I have to waste time posting all the outbreaks of diseases that were on their way to decimating the population before the CDC contained them, or can we save my time and just admit that the CDC does their job very well. Our continued existence is evidence of that.

DRAGON88 · Posted: Jul 13, 2014 9:34 am Post subject:

eeven73 · Posted: Jul 14, 2014 8:28 am Post subject:

DRAGON88,

ok

Did Pasteur work for the CDC Question

Neognosis · Ladies Man Joined: 13 Jan 2003 Posts: 17617 City: Webster

No, he did not, because the CDC didn't exist.

In NYC at the turn of the 20th century, the market failed to regulate itself and many people were sick by tainted milk. Many children died.

Dairy cows were fed distillery waste and were overcrowded so that the operators could make more money.

Eventually, a law was passed requiring Pasteurization.

People who lived in the city could not afford to have milk from the countryside shipped in.

eeven73 · Posted: Jul 14, 2014 9:55 am Post subject:

I agree that the free market will not fix all ills.

On the flipside gov't, as you stated above, has all the problems associated with large organizations. IMPO compounded by the fact that there is no consequence for mismanagement(forced retirement).

Neognosis · Ladies Man Joined: 13 Jan 2003 Posts: 17617 City: Webster

Yes, people are people and behave in their own self interests whether they are in the gov't or whether they are in private corporations.

I prefer bureaucracy and incompetence over greed and incompetence when it comes to health and safety.

People have golden parachutes in both the gov't and private corporations.

eeven73 · Posted: Jul 14, 2014 10:24 am Post subject:

The further point I would make is that mismanaged corporations die(bastardized by too big to fail), mismanaged gov't organizations get "reformed" ie. more money.

Neognosis · Ladies Man Joined: 13 Jan 2003 Posts: 17617 City: Webster

I think that is probably true.

But it is also true that sometimes, when corporations are mismanaged, people also die. And it's not even a matter of "mis" managed, because in a culture that puts profit above the good of the society, sometimes the "proper" management of a company results in harm to the society.

Same is true with the gov't in some instances, sure.

But I prefer for profit and greed to be out of the equation when health is involved.

I believe in a healthy mix of capitalism and socialism. With nothing but socialism, you get a stagnant situation where people are mired in red tape.

With nothing but capitalism, you get children working in factories and such.

I honestly believe that this debate will be over one day, hopefully during my lifetime, and we'll look back at a time when private companies made decisions about which treatments they would or would not cover and we'll wonder what we were thinking.

Tbonez · Posted: Jul 15, 2014 4:34 am Post subject:

Why wasnt this an issue in the past?

Oh wait government wasnt knee deep in our healthcare.

There is no way I would open a business in this country in todays climate. Tax code instability, insane tax rates, crazy epa regulations, forced medical coverage, forced to go along with issues you may have moral objections to, operate in a litigation happy population, no clear direction on what the government is going to do with its fiscal policy...Its as if you dont even own your own business anymore and that you are simply running an entity to assist with the governments political agenda.

Companies are sitting on piles of cash because no one has a clue what the next scheme of this administration will be to kill business. Who is going to invest in this climate? I wouldnt if I owned a business. There would be no hiring, no investement, no nothing..Just sit tight and wait it out.

This Country has to be one of the most inhospitable places to do business and I've done business around the globe.. If I was going to open a business the first thing I would do is leave this "land of opportunity"...If I was going to operate here I would offshore EVERYTHING and I mean everything.

Okie Boarder · Ladies Man Joined: 03 Mar 2008 Posts: 10056 City: Edmond

Sheesh...they need to let this go. The SCOTUS made its decision...let's move on. It's like all of DC is just a bunch of bickering children.

Neognosis · Ladies Man Joined: 13 Jan 2003 Posts: 17617 City: Webster

Okie Boarder · Ladies Man Joined: 03 Mar 2008 Posts: 10056 City: Edmond

Bwahahaha

Okie Boarder · Ladies Man Joined: 03 Mar 2008 Posts: 10056 City: Edmond

Looks like the Satanists are trying to get in on it.

chavez · RIP MHL 04/25/1958 - 01/11/2006

Couldn't see this coming miles and miles away... Neutral

Okie Boarder · Ladies Man Joined: 03 Mar 2008 Posts: 10056 City: Edmond

Seems like there could be a simple solution...repeal RFRA.

goofyboy · Posted: Jul 31, 2014 8:57 am Post subject:

Score one for the santanists. This will be interesting. Another unintended consquence of government over reach.

Really, though, I think the Dems messed up when the bowed down to the insurance companies. They had the numbers and the power to push through a single payer, government run system. They should have.