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surfdad Soul Rider
Joined: 21 Oct 2005 Posts: 381 City: Stockton
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surfdad Soul Rider
Joined: 21 Oct 2005 Posts: 381 City: Stockton
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lakewakes Newbie
Joined: 07 Mar 2010 Posts: 18 City: lake sinclair
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Posted: Mar 07, 2010 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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i see you have green grass already , and will this build be in with the garage sale of boards |
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surfdad Soul Rider
Joined: 21 Oct 2005 Posts: 381 City: Stockton
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surfdad Soul Rider
Joined: 21 Oct 2005 Posts: 381 City: Stockton
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Posted: Mar 07, 2010 7:51 pm Post subject: |
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The joys of epoxy. Most room temperature cure (RTC) epoxies require a post cure. The RTC requires a post cure so that the epoxy develops it's full properties.
The post cure process is simply heating the board/epoxy up to a temperature below the heat deflection temperature (HDT) of the epoxy for several hours and then letting it cool. One issue with epoxy is that it can get soft under later use at any temperature above the temperature it was originally cured at. You can imagine how easy that would be in July out in the boat!
The only thing that is problemetic for me here is that the 1# EPS melts at a lower temperature than the HDT of my chosen epoxy.
I use a hot box that has 4 100 watt light bulbs connected to a Johnson control. I set the Johnson control to 110 and bake the board. _________________ Buy my kid's board!
FlyBoy Wakesurf - the most technically advanced wakesurf boards
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flixmaster Site Owner
Joined: 30 Oct 2003 Posts: 7487
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surfdad Soul Rider
Joined: 21 Oct 2005 Posts: 381 City: Stockton
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Posted: Mar 09, 2010 8:16 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks Ed, it's great fun to engineer and then build a board like this.
Now on to installing the fin boxes. Earlier I described placing the high density foam for the fin boxes and now I will sink those boxes into that high density foam.
Just a quick visual of where the boxes will end up. _________________ Buy my kid's board!
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surfdad Soul Rider
Joined: 21 Oct 2005 Posts: 381 City: Stockton
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Posted: Mar 09, 2010 8:21 pm Post subject: |
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I start by marking the location of the boxes. I measure the placement up from the tail and then, find center and measure the trailing edge of the boxes out from the centerline. I repeat that process for the leading edge of the boxes and draw the toe-in which becomes the centerline of the boxes. _________________ Buy my kid's board!
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surfdad Soul Rider
Joined: 21 Oct 2005 Posts: 381 City: Stockton
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surfdad Soul Rider
Joined: 21 Oct 2005 Posts: 381 City: Stockton
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surfdad Soul Rider
Joined: 21 Oct 2005 Posts: 381 City: Stockton
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surfdad Soul Rider
Joined: 21 Oct 2005 Posts: 381 City: Stockton
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Posted: Mar 09, 2010 8:39 pm Post subject: |
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In the picture above you can see the "fuzz" from the Zylon. It's exceptionally hard to rout through the two layers. Fiberglass cut's cleaning and doesn't have this issue. I run the router around several times and it finally trims the Zylon pretty close, the last little bit I burn off with a lighter
Lastly, I mix up some epoxy and pour it into the holes, and set the boxes in place. The use of the fins allows me to check the toe and cant as the epoxy cures.
I'm going to paint the exterior, so the boxes will wind up being painted too. _________________ Buy my kid's board!
FlyBoy Wakesurf - the most technically advanced wakesurf boards
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surfdad Soul Rider
Joined: 21 Oct 2005 Posts: 381 City: Stockton
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lakewakes Newbie
Joined: 07 Mar 2010 Posts: 18 City: lake sinclair
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Posted: Mar 12, 2010 4:24 pm Post subject: |
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SD,
So how come you still install boxes after the build, instead like i do under the glass.
And have you tried the probox fin stuff, they have cool fins and install is the same way as you do yours. |
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surfdad Soul Rider
Joined: 21 Oct 2005 Posts: 381 City: Stockton
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Posted: Mar 12, 2010 8:36 pm Post subject: |
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Hey Mark - Zylon doesn't sand, under the zylon and it would just be a fuzzy mess if I tried to grind the slot open. Zylon is an amazing material, but it's a major PITA to work with - doesn't sand, hard to cut and takes tons of pressure to consolidate smoothly. Behind the boat we don't really need the glass over the box, so I don't bother. Probox is a nice box, but I have no Probox or FCS fins, and I have a TON of Futures.
Second coat of primer on the deck and first on the bottom, both still a tad wet. The last picture, shows a layer of bondo that I use to create a "smoothie" around the fins., this is before any sanding. I'll paint over the boxes so that you can't tell they are there. _________________ Buy my kid's board!
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surfdad Soul Rider
Joined: 21 Oct 2005 Posts: 381 City: Stockton
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surfdad Soul Rider
Joined: 21 Oct 2005 Posts: 381 City: Stockton
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Posted: Mar 13, 2010 8:05 pm Post subject: |
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I HATE the boring graphics on most of the boards out there. I grew up in the age of old school paint - lace panels, metal flake pin lines, etc. My plan is to lay down some red for pin lines, then silver metal flake for more pin lines, a white panel in the middle and then blue panels with some "fish scales" and panels with horizontal fade bars.
Ketone is where I buy my paints. They offer enamel and urethane paints directly from car manufacturers in rattle cans. The urethane paint is toxic as hell, but super rugged. _________________ Buy my kid's board!
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surfdad Soul Rider
Joined: 21 Oct 2005 Posts: 381 City: Stockton
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Posted: Mar 14, 2010 6:12 pm Post subject: |
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I roughed out a design on scratch paper and then transfer that onto a full sheet of butcher paper - freehand. My design will have 5 panels, one at the nose and two on each side. In between each panel, I want a red pinline. I cut the panels out of my full size rough out and then trace around those on the board, lightly, with pencil. _________________ Buy my kid's board!
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surfdad Soul Rider
Joined: 21 Oct 2005 Posts: 381 City: Stockton
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surfdad Soul Rider
Joined: 21 Oct 2005 Posts: 381 City: Stockton
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Posted: Mar 14, 2010 6:22 pm Post subject: |
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Next I shoot the red where I'll place the pinline. It's a little wide so that when I layout the 1/16" tape I can adjust the shape and get a nice symmetrical shape. The panels will follow the outline of the red pinlines. When I lay the pinline tape over the red, that color will stay as I apply the other colors. _________________ Buy my kid's board!
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surfdad Soul Rider
Joined: 21 Oct 2005 Posts: 381 City: Stockton
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surfdad Soul Rider
Joined: 21 Oct 2005 Posts: 381 City: Stockton
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surfdad Soul Rider
Joined: 21 Oct 2005 Posts: 381 City: Stockton
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Posted: Mar 15, 2010 6:58 pm Post subject: |
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This is a CLEAR example of why I don't do this for a living My bifocals make it REALLY hard to get it lined up, but...it'll do. In this picture, you can see how the tape will cover up the red and when I peel that off later, the red will show up. _________________ Buy my kid's board!
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surfdad Soul Rider
Joined: 21 Oct 2005 Posts: 381 City: Stockton
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Posted: Mar 15, 2010 7:00 pm Post subject: |
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I intend to tape up some wider pinlines around the outside of the panels. I don't have much width control with the rattle can, so I lay down the silver metal flake as a base coat. After this dries tomorrow, I'll tape the panel outlines. _________________ Buy my kid's board!
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surfdad Soul Rider
Joined: 21 Oct 2005 Posts: 381 City: Stockton
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Posted: Mar 16, 2010 6:27 pm Post subject: |
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The panels will have a a thicker (1/4") silver border around them, so I lay that out with 218 in a 1/4" width. This gives a visual of where the panels will be. Each panel will have a separate effect. The middle oval will be painted white, the various panels will be a pale blue with dark blue effects. _________________ Buy my kid's board!
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surfdad Soul Rider
Joined: 21 Oct 2005 Posts: 381 City: Stockton
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Posted: Mar 16, 2010 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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The dark blue effects on the nose will be taped over, so I lay down a coat of dark blue, after taping off the rails and across the panel pinline at the bottom. The middle oval is white, so I lay down the white to cover that. On the rest of the panels I want a bright and light blue and so I paint the inside of the panels white which will give me a lighter shade of blue for the inside of the panels and it brightens up the blue, also.
Tomorrow I'll tape over the center oval and apply the tape in the front panel then it will be ready for a coat of blue metalflake. _________________ Buy my kid's board!
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surfdad Soul Rider
Joined: 21 Oct 2005 Posts: 381 City: Stockton
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surfdad Soul Rider
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surfdad Soul Rider
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Nooga678 Wakeboarder.Commie
Joined: 17 Jul 2006 Posts: 1287 City: Chattanooga
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Posted: Mar 18, 2010 3:41 am Post subject: |
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Can't wait to see the finished paint job. Do you put any final clear coat over the paint?
Also, what is the benefit for the side bite fins and how do you set them up? From the pictures it looks like you did the main two fins as a traditional twin set up with some toe in. Will those also have some can't? Then it looks like the side bites are toe'd in even more or is that just an illusion in the picture? |
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surfdad Soul Rider
Joined: 21 Oct 2005 Posts: 381 City: Stockton
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Posted: Mar 18, 2010 4:50 am Post subject: |
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Hey Nooga, thanks for following along. Yes, after I finish both sides, I'll hit it with a few layers of a catalyzed clear coat, which is super durable and is the same stuff used in the clear coat on cars.
You have a great eye! Those small boxes are C5's from Futures. Many moons ago Rusty P of Rusty's surfboards designed those and there are small fins that go along with it and he call the fin pod design a C5. In Rusty's design they used a traditional thruster design and then added those small canards to the front. There is another fin pod design called a twinzer which is a four fin, like I plan,. but the canards are placed further ahead of the fin than the C5 arrangement.
The rail fins have the standard cant from Futures, which is set at 6 degrees - we use the 3/2/1 Vector's as the rail fins. The smaller C5's have a cant of 9 degrees. I also add about an extra 1/8" of toe.
The theory behind the design as created by Rusty is that the canards promote attachment on the larger rail fins. They enter the water ahead of the rail fins and break up the "tension" so that as the water flows back to the rail fins, there is less drag and that stream of water attaches more easily to the main fins.
If not done right, those canards just add DRAG, but with the proper placement, you can feel the increase in the board's "squirt" - the acceleration is more rapid than the twin fins alone, but it doesn't create that harsh locked in feel of a true quad. _________________ Buy my kid's board!
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surfdad Soul Rider
Joined: 21 Oct 2005 Posts: 381 City: Stockton
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surfdad Soul Rider
Joined: 21 Oct 2005 Posts: 381 City: Stockton
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surfdad Soul Rider
Joined: 21 Oct 2005 Posts: 381 City: Stockton
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surfdad Soul Rider
Joined: 21 Oct 2005 Posts: 381 City: Stockton
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Posted: Mar 18, 2010 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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Again, you can see why I don't do this for a living My panels aren't matched, but I'm ok with it. The outline of the panels is silver, but is under the tape right now. This gives you a slight visual of what it will look like when done. _________________ Buy my kid's board!
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