Innies Vs. Sternies? **New Boat

[QNev]

Over the next few weeks I'm going to have a hell of a time trying to convince my dad that the $28K should go towards an inboard. Right now he's pretty much set on getting something like this:



The only boat we've owned was an i/o and he doesn't want to stray from it. To him, any boat with a tower is a wakeboard boat. Because the Rinker R1, for example, has ballast, perfect pass, a tower and just as much room as a V-Drive, I'm at loss of argument. It has a deep hull so in theory it will handle those 2 or 3 times (max) per year that we get somewhat choppy water which is why we "need" an I/O.

What arguments can I give for an inboard when dad wants something that can be beached, has lots of room and storage, and is comfortable for a day on the lake even if the water isn't calm?

Help me fight this uphill battle!

Thanks!

[br]

you couldnt wakesurf

the rope could get caught on the prop way easier...

idk those ae my best ideas....

an inboard has a way more powerfu motor so when you have the boat load of people you wont starin the motor trying to get you up..

[bass69]

im in the EXACT same situation as you

[Red57Bird]

I owned a Chaparral I/O for the last 3 years and I sold it and bought a 2003 SAN. Here are some differences I noticed:

* Like has been mentioned, you can't surf
* I'm using less fuel per hour in the Nautique (about half)
* Inboard engines are much simpler and winterization is much easier
* Inboards don't have power steering pumps, outdrives, trim motors, and other stuff that has to be maintained/replaced.
* Replacing the impeller on an I/O is about $200-300 if you have it done by the marina, since the lower unit has to be removed.
* Replacing/repairing the outdrive is pricey
* Most inboards hold their resale value much better compared to I/Os

Trust me, put the $28K towards a good used inboard. Take it from someone that has "been there and done that".

[bjackson]

Red57Bird is right on the money, some great points that should definitely help your argument.

On top of that use what mastcraft and nautique use for a sales pitch, that a inboard is safer because all the undergear ( prop, rudder, etc) is tucked under the boat with an inboard. The I/O is obviously going to have its lower unit exposed off the stern of boat increasing the chances of an accident whether the engine be accidently left on or off.

There are a lot more mechanical elements in the lower unit that could go wrong, like Red57Bird said, an inboard is such a easier system to maintain.

[SilverMustang35]

I agree with everybody's points and realized that we have good prices in NE Tn. To change the impeller is only running me about 60 bucks in my stern drive lol...even with the gear lube and impeller its only about 150....sorry, just had to throw that in. I didnt realize it cost so much everywhere else...I now wish I would have bought an inboard too...But ill deal with what I have...I've got it dialed in pretty good now

[K-dub]

It all depends on the outdrive for the impeller change.
Merc has to remove the lower unit from the drive, while Volvo is on the front of the motor like an inboard. Could be the price difference?

[QNev]

Red57Bird, So maintenance is a plus but what about "ease of use". Never thought about the resale value though. Thanks!

[grip01]

Resale

Lack of moving parts to break

Much better fuel mileage

safety factor with the prop under the boat

I also tend to think the quality of parts and materials used on a inboard is much better.


Last the prop isn't that low in the water.

[sstojak]

Not bashing or raining on your parade but I really don't like these "help convince my parents to buy this" threads. You should be lucky your dad is willing to buy any boat for the family. Sound like from your first post that for what your dad wants, an I/O best suits his needs after all he is buying HIS boat. Wakeboard behind the I/O, go to school, get a good job and buy your own VLX.

[E.J.]

My I/O, a 2000 Cobalt 190, got far better gas “mileage” than my SAN.

It was equal build wise.

Maintenance was no more costly.

Resale was AMAZING.

As I stated in the previous thread that was deleted(why was that by the way?)….. IMO, a inboard is far superior as a tow boat. Not sure if it is better in any other area of “boating.” It does not cruise better. Probably is not as comfy lounging around. The bonus of the prop being under the boat is being taken care of by the monster swim platforms they are putting on I/O’s now.

Of course I LOVE my current boat and have no desire to get another I/O at present…. But my wife would get another Cobalt in the 24’ range tomorrow if I would agree. The only thing she prefers about our ’03 SAN over the Cobalt, is Perfect Pass….

[Red57Bird]

I guess every boat and manufacturer is different. My boat had a 5.0 Merc at 260HP and it burned about 7 gal./hr. wake boarding, compared to about 3.5-4 gal./hr. on my SAN with the Excal 330. With maintenance, if you do the Mercruiser recommended service you have to pull the lower unit at least once every two years (min. $200-$300) to replace the impeller and to service the gimbal bearing. If you have to repair or replace the lower unit, count on a $1,500-$3,500 repair bill depending on the drive type. Then every five years plan on replacing all of the bellows to the tune of about $1,000-$1,500. Point is that I/O's are a lot more complicated compared to an inboard, and have the potential for much higher repair bills.

Now you can always forgo the maintenance and take your chances, like my brother-in-law did. He didn't replace the bellows and after leaving the boat in the water overnight, it sank. The bellows were cracked from age and use.

As far as the swim platforms on I/O's, it doesn't matter how big they are, you still have an exposed prop close to a surfer.

I'm not saying that inboards are the perfect boat for everyone. But as a tow boat, I/O's can't compete.

[E.J.]

[QNev]

sstojak, Our old boat was just totalled by a dipshit driver and we were looking to upgrade anyways because it was unanimous that the old boat wasn't anything to cheer about.

I think resale is enough to convince the man though.

[Blindside_137]

QNev, i was going through the same thing last year.. http://forums.wakeboarder.com/viewtopic.php?t=68218&highlight=rinker

there's some more info about the boat. but that rinker r1 is pretty dang expensive.

[QNev]

Blindside_137, yeah believe me, the dealer won't shut up about it. The only thing that has the both of us sold is the fact i/o's cut through waves like butter.

...Which leads me to this: How well would an inboard (say 22 ft.) do on a pretty rough day? The bottoms are generally flatter aren't they? What is the best wake boat to have on a choppy day?

Thanks again.

[leviwynnyk]

I have an 08 Moomba XLV 23 foot and it is way better in the big chop then my old 18.5 foot I/O was. Mind you the Moombas and Supras have a deep keel which helps for the choppy days.

I went from a 96 I/o to this boat and I can without any doubt it was the best decision I've made in a while. It seats 16, lots of power and room, and all the bells (perfect pass makes everyone happy). Not much more then a new i/o really. For anything towing related or even just cruising the lake, nothing beat's a V drive boat. Heck this boat is way better for fishing then my old boat too, and landing big fish on the swim platform is fun.

Convince your dad to test drive both boats, this will help sway him.

[holdsworth]

i'd recommend having him go to a dealership with nice, used inboards (older mastercraft prostars are nice, even an 01-02 era v-drive wake boat) and take it for a test drive. see how he likes it then.

[sstojak]

Qnev, my apologies for misunderstanding about you guys already wanting to upgrade. I think their should be some special provision in boat insurance policies to cover the "dipshit" factor. Wish you could sue the guy in the car for mental anguish of having to go though that. $1,200 is a cheap punishment for what he did. Just seeing your boat on the flatbed like that brings a tear to my eye. I may have good into shock seeing something like that happend to my boat (baby). Like everyone else has pretty much said, boat can be replaced. People and animals can't, glad everyone is ok (including dog).

[E.J.]

[fish6942]

[SilverMustang35]

And especially if Perfect pass integrated the trim into PP like they were talking...that would be nice...each rider has a trim preference and set it and forget it. Granted I like inboards but the trim is my wedge for now

[grip01]

[E.J.]

[grip01]

I think some of the deep V boats handle chop very well.Only thing I don't like about the deep V is it has a tendency to list when turning and yes,my tige rides excellent.

[JUST-IN-TIME]

[leviwynnyk]

By "For anything towing related or even just cruising the lake, nothing beat's a V drive boat" I meant that the interior are better designed for having a bunch of people just "cruise" the lake for a day because there are lots of places to stretch out and lay down unlike most typical i/0's that have a bunch of captains chairs. I had an i/o for 4 years and we spend much more time on our new boat at a time because it's more comfortable. My 23 XLV foot handles chop great, far better then my old i/o.

Try before you buy.

[turbohoje]

may i ask a dumb question, i'm new to boating.

i have an 23' io now. what is the tactic for trimming the boat such that it rides better in the chop?

i assume that means raising the outdrive so that it pushes down on the stern lifting the bow. i'm only guessing this because an inboard would have trim tabs to do the opposite or do ski boats come with those?

for the record, i just bought a very old outdrive, and am 1800 worth of rebuilt parts in it already. the inboards seem way more appealing especially after driving one but i havent noticed a difference in the way they ride (not to say i was paying attention).

[JUST-IN-TIME]

turbohoje

what boat u got
trim tabs help big time

[turbohoje]

we call it 'miami vice'
[img]http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3035/2750038722_d4d4da88a1.jpg?v=0[/img]
its a 1980 glastron cv 23 w/ disco ball and mercruiser io 260

the local "expert on everything" says to star with the motor all the way down, then bring it up until it just starts to porpoise. at that point, fix it with the tabs.

i dont think that had anything to do with adjusting for choppage tho.

[E.J.]

Back when I had an I/O, I didn’t mess with the outdrive when going through big chop, though when I wanted speed, just popping over chop or cruising on nicer water…..I’d get up to where I wanted to be, then would lift the outdrive about 1/3 and it would give me 5mph give or take…. I assume it has something to do with getting less resistance under the water…?

Also lifted the outdrive to clean up the wake while pulling wakeboarders…..

[canuck]

[quote="QNev"]What arguments can I give for an inboard when dad wants something that can be beached, has lots of room and storage, and is comfortable for a day on the lake even if the water isn't calm?[/quote]

From a dad's point of view .... so you may not like it.

I had to make the very same decision four year's ago. I am from the lower mainland but have annually go to Shuswap, Okanagan Lake, Osoyoos etc.

We previously owned a 19' Campion I/O and my kids and wife were really getting into wakeboarding. At their urging four years ago we got a Tige 22i.

As to your dad's requirements:

Beaching - much more difficult with a V-drive than an I/O as the running gear is all hanging out the bottom and easily damaged. Advantage I/O.

Room and storage - similiar amount of room with a similiarly sized boat. No advantage for either.

Running in rough water - while my Tige has a fairly deep V hull it does not come close to handling rough water like my Campion. Advantage I/O.

Resale value - here in BC the season is very very short and the demand for direct drives vs. I/O is different than in the southern states. I do not believe that direct drives have a significant advantage over I/O's in resale values.

To me the biggest differences and why we ultimately chose to purchase a direct drive are:

Speed control - very difficult to maintain wakeboard speed on an I/O.

Wakesurfing - dispite the new larger rear decks on I/O's I would still never allow my kids to wakesurf behind one.

Main use of the boat - if the main use of the boat is for wakeboarding and other water sports then a direct drive is the best choice. If your dad wants to also cruise the lake and go fishing etc. then maybe an I/O is better. My kids and wife told me in no uncertain terms that they are not interested in cruising around and were only interested in water sports.

[QNev]

canuck, My friend's cousin lost his leg wakesurfing behind an I/O. It should never, ever be done behind one. Sorry, it's offtopic but thanks a lot. So what boat did you end up going for? V-Drive or Direct? If it is direct, do you find the interior cramped?

Thanks a lot.

[canuck]

[quote="QNev"][b]canuck[/b], My friend's cousin lost his leg wakesurfing behind an I/O. It should never, ever be done behind one. Sorry, it's offtopic but thanks a lot. So what boat did you end up going for? V-Drive or Direct? If it is direct, do you find the interior cramped?

Thanks a lot.[/quote]

I agree about the wakesurfing that is why it would make a good reason for getting an inboard boat.

We got the Tige 22i. It is a direct drive and I don't find it cramped.

The seat facing rearward is perfect for taping the kids.

Very very good handling boat even if the water gets a bit rough.

[RUSSIAN]

SAFETY SAFETY SAFETY

After watching my cousin almost lose his foot, and growing up watching people get hurt with i/o and outboards, I can tell you that an inboard boat is far safer. I have to REALLY try to get my foot to touch the prop on my vlx.
My cousins accident involved alcohol and was very preventable, BUT I can easily invision something very similar happening with kids while the parents are distracted by something else. A lot of newer I/O's address this problem with huge decks, but the running gear is still there, right under the deck. I would never own another boat where the swimming area is right where the prop is. There are a lot of great I/O boats out there, but not for me. This would be my selling point if i were in your shoes